Pirates Second Half

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby Crimson's Ghost » July 16th, 2018, 12:28 pm

knowitall wrote:Hitting the other way is a lot easier said than done.

If there's a group of people that's capable of doing it, major league players would be the guys. 



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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby abpk2903 » July 16th, 2018, 2:12 pm

I just don’t think the organizational philosophy ever matches up with the drafting and development of players. I’ll give you a few examples:
1) Polanco came up and reminded me of a Vladimir Guerrero. Long, lanky, quick, and instinctual. Well they tried to make him overly disciplined at the plate, he put on a monsterous amount muscle mass, and he seems now to second guess almost every swing, base running decision, and fielding opportunity. He went from a potential 5 tool player, to a 3 tool player in the process.

2) Cole, Taillon, Morton, and Glasnow. They all are hard throwers. Why did the organization go out and put all this effort into getting hard throwers and swing and miss pitchers then have them get to the bigs and work with Ray Searage’s “pitch to contact” philosophy?  There is a reason that in AAA Glasnow is lights out. There is a reason why Morton goes to Houston and his sinker becomes nasty. There is a reason why Cole goes to Houston and becomes a Cy Young candidate. Now Taillon is being the latest example. Let these guys reach back, bring their electric stuff, and throw up and in.  If you want a Maddox and Glavine type of staff, then stop drafting and trading for power pitching prospects.

3)  This team needs to stop overvaluing “clubhouse guys” like Freese and SeanRod. Bench depth should not be a huge concern for a small market team. They are eating up way to much payroll in this area.  Fill you bench with whoever is hot in AAA or bring up a prospect if a starter hits the DL.  If you happen to be in a pennant chase in July, then is a time you can typically find a veteran bench guy for a reasonable price. 

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby Crimson's Ghost » July 16th, 2018, 2:33 pm

Yeah, there's no reason to have guys like Cole throwing fastballs non-stop. Major leaguers can hit 98 mph. He needed to mix in his breaking stuff, and in Houston he has been and he's being the pitcher he was supposed to be all along.


I think the Pirates do a nice job of fixing guys, but their development is leaving a lot to be desired.

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby PAMDGrappler » July 17th, 2018, 6:23 pm

I think a big problem with their lack of success in the draft is that they focus more on guys they know they can sign rather than going after the best players available.

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby PAMDGrappler » July 17th, 2018, 6:28 pm

This Pirates team is not that bad and is actually very entertaining to watch. They lack a true top of the rotation pitcher and a middle of the order power hitter. I love that they are playing a lot of young guys. However, what happens when these young guys begin to consistently perform and demand higher compensation. Will the front office step up and keep them in Pittsburgh? They’ve yet to show they are willing to do that unless the player agrees to an extremely team friendly contract. That is my main frustration with the Pirates.

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby Crimson's Ghost » July 17th, 2018, 6:45 pm

PAMDGrappler wrote:I think a big problem with their lack of success in the draft is that they focus more on guys they know they can sign rather than going after the best players available.

I don't find that to be true at all. That was a Littlefield thing, not really a Huntington thing. If that were the case, they wouldn't have drafted Pedro Alvarez or Gerrit Cole.  Heck the one year they tried to draft Mark Appel even though he was deemed totally un-signable.  

They also drafted Josh Bell the one year when he told teams not to draft him, and he got the biggest signing bonus ever for a non-first rounder.
  
So that theory or drafting easy signs doesn't line up at all really. 

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby Crimson's Ghost » July 17th, 2018, 6:47 pm

PAMDGrappler wrote:This Pirates team is not that bad and is actually very entertaining to watch.  They lack a true top of the rotation pitcher and a middle of the order power hitter.  I love that they are playing a lot of young guys.  However, what happens when these young guys begin to consistently perform and demand higher compensation.  Will the front office step up and keep them in Pittsburgh?  They’ve yet to show they are willing to do that unless the player agrees to an extremely team friendly contract.  That is my main frustration with the Pirates.

The Pirates in the past 8 years have signed extensions with Andrew McCutchen, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, Francisco Cervelli, Josh Harrison, and Francisco Liriano. 

So generally, they lock up their young talent when they have to.  They let Russell Martin and J.A. Happ walk, but in hindsight the Russell Martin turned out to be a blessing since he hasn't been that good in Toronto. 

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby PAMDGrappler » July 17th, 2018, 11:17 pm

Brad Lincoln, Daniel Moskos, Tony Sanchez to name a few? All reaches Bc they were “signable”. A lot more reaches after the first round. Cervelli and Liriano were not homegrown as they were brought here as free agents. The other 4 signed team-friendly deals, or I’m sure they’d be playing elsewhere.

I think we can both agree that the drafts and player development have not been up to par for a small market team.

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby Crimson's Ghost » July 17th, 2018, 11:27 pm

I agree the drafting and development has been poor, but I don't think they have turned down drafting the best player available.

Lincoln in 2006, and Moskos in 2007 were both drafted by Dave Littlefield.

Neal Huntington's first draft was 2008, and he drafted Pedro Alvarez, who was considered a tough sign since he was a Scott Boras client.  So they put their foot down and started drafting whoever they wanted at least.


I think their issue is player development and scouting overall.  But when it comes to first round picks, they at least draft guys that command a high bonus and they aren't afraid to do like they were with Littlefield.



Like in 2010 for instance, Jameson Taillon wasn't some cheap out they drafted to avoid a big payout. He was the highest rated high school pitcher in the draft. His signing bonus was the second highest ever at the tine (6.5 million). So in that case it wasn't that they were afraid to draft an expensive player, they just drafted the wrong one (Manny Machado).

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Re: Pirates Second Half

Postby Wrasslerfan » July 18th, 2018, 3:32 am

I'm tired of being criticized about my opinions
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