Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby Wrasslerfan » April 12th, 2017, 5:30 pm

not the its early argument again


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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby pahntr » April 13th, 2017, 12:32 pm

They may be better than the cubs at some point in 10 years. A lot of those studs the Cubs have now are on rookie contracts. Even the Cubs won't be able to keep paying them to stay there forever. Forget the Cubs though, i'd be happy to see the Bucs look competitive against the REDS. In the 3 games they have won this season, half of the runs they scored were unearned!!!!! 

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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby pahntr » August 30th, 2017, 11:17 am

pahntr wrote:At what point do we as fans decide that the current Pirates leadership has failed? I know it's early in the season and A LOT can (and hopefully does) change. However, we are seeing the same issues that we've seen for the past few years....inconsistent starters, lack of power up and down the line up, "prospects" that fail to live up to the hype, constant base running blunders and ZERO ability to get clutch hits with runners in scoring position. Winning modern baseball seems to tie to two things--dominant starting pitching and hitting home runs. All pitchers make mistakes, even the best ones. Good and great teams have hitters who make those pitchers pay when they make a mistake by going yard. The Pirates have zero threats in their lineup this season that fit that description. No one wins in the MLB without being able to hit home runs. It gets even more amplified when the playoffs come around. The scary thing is Neal Huntington has stated over and over that 2017 was the year they were waiting for. All of his prospects are coming of age and are in the bigs together. The current management group's finger prints are all over the personnel of this organization at this point and it seems like we may be headed for a monumental failure. I have grown very tired of hearing about how great the Pirates outfield is....can anyone recall an extended period of time when Polanco, Marte and McCutchen have all been playing well at the same time? There always seems to be at least one of them that is hurt or slumping. Yet, we are always told about how talented their outfield is. Is the club house too relaxed? What position group has the management of this organization been good at developing? They haven't had top notch corner infielders for years, drafted and developed starting pitching is inconsistent at best, catchers have always been filled with acquired talent. What position group do they develop from within? I have traditionally defended Neal Huntington but I think I am about out of patience. It seems like they have actually gotten worse since the "break through" years of 2013,14 &15. I hope I am wrong, but it sure feels like we are headed for another year of mediocrity at best. 

That post was made in April at the beginning of the season.....I will throw this back up here now that we are winding down what has turned into a mediocre year at best. Is this acceptable? Marte and Kang are not excuses for this group. Their issues do not hinge on two guys. There seems to be so many issues with the major league level of this organization in terms of competing for championships that it's hard to decide what to label as the greatest need. We went through a whole season without a true major league 4th outfielder and successfully shortened the career or 2-3 bullpen pitchers because of how much they were used. I am so sick of hearing small market.....there are so many other teams in the majors that are the same market size as Pittsburgh and they go out and take risks to try to get better. These teams don't always succeed but they try to succeed. They make investments to put the team on the field that has the best chance possible to win a championship. The Pirates seem like they are trying to manage their organization on prayers that all of their drafted prospects will become superstars.....that's FREAKING impossible. It's unheard of and never happens in the majors. All great MLB teams add to the talent they've drafted and developed by signing proven big league ball players to fill in the gaps. Major league baseball is all about dominant starting pitching and hitting home runs. If you don't have the dudes to do both, you won't win. The Pirates will not spend the money to acquire dudes to do either. That's a pathetic way to run a professional sports franchise. An interview with Neal Huntington has turned into him sounding like a political figure who's always trying to defend his decisions and thoughts on policy. I generally give GM's and Head Coaches/Managers a lot of leash in professional sports....the guys on the field are the "best" in the world at what they do. However, in this case, I cannot see how it makes any sense to keep Huntington around. Unless he is willing to buy the team from Nutting and quit being his penny pinching, cheap skate puppet! Ultimately, I would love to see Nutting gone too, but he keeps making so much money by owning the team that there isn't much chance of him selling them. SPEND SOME MONEY TO PUT A TEAM ON THE FIELD THAT WILL COMPETE TO WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS! Pro sports are for winning championships, not for just being competitive. That's the advantage of being able to assemble your roster with anyone you want to....Sorry for the rant, I just can't stand seeing the product this organization puts on the field!

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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby Crimson's Ghost » August 30th, 2017, 10:20 pm

The Pirates need to spend as an organization.  The ownership does not give Neal Huntington much to work with. Nobody is arguing otherwise except a few people that think the Pirates can do no wrong.

However, windows in baseball don't stay open for very long, especially for small market teams.  2013-2015 was it for this current group.  They were good enough to win it all in those seasons, they didn't get it done in the postseason, which is generally a crapshoot.  It happens, only one team can win it all.

Following the 2015 season, they should have made a few moves and tried to add something, they didn't and it set them back and closed their window.  The Cubs are better than the Pirates in every way currently, so that's a problem for the foreseeable future. 

Point being, the Pirates weren't going to be a consistent player from 2013-2020, not many teams are able to do that. But they could have kept it going for another year or two, but not much longer beyond that.  Cutch's decline really hurt this team. 


But I will say, the players in this town are sometimes forgotten about because fans in this town are obsessed with management that they forget the players can be blamed too.

So I will disagree, you can't tell anyone that follows this team that shipping off their leadoff and cleanup hitter for a half and a whole season respectively didn't matter. It absolutely did.  If I got rid of any team's 2 of their top 4 hitters for that long, they'd feel the effects of that also.



Anyway..........


I'm not sure where they go from here...

They need a catcher because Cervelli can't stay healthy.
Josh Bell looks like a stud. 
Josh Harrison had a nice season.
Mercer had the same season he always has. 
Freese isn't an everyday third basemen.
Marte needs to play 162 games.
McCutchen had 2 good months, and 3 bad ones.  He's still iffy.
Polanco needs to stay healthy.

Osuna and Frazier did alright as young guys off the bench, they seem like solid players moving forward

But as a whole, not much offensively to bring excitement heading into next year.  They need another bat and they need a healthy catcher. Not sure what they can do to fix that.


Pitching wise, they have arguably the best reliever in baseball and a bullpen that was bad this season aside from him.  I'm sure they can sign a decent reliever or two.

Starters... Cole was OK/Good, never great.  Nova started the season awesome and is limping to the finish line.  Kuhl/Williams seemingly have 2 good starts than a terrible one.  They aren't bad, but they can be upgraded.  I'm gonna throw out Taillon's season given the Cancer and other injuries, I think he'll be fine next season. Just had some tough luck this year.   Can Glasnow pitch better in the majors? It'd be helpful if he could.  


Soooooo basically the Pirates need....

1. Another starting pitcher - They should try to make a deal for one, but realistically the ownership won't shell out money and they'll have to hope Glasnow turns out to be what he's supposed to be.  

If Glasnow can't figure it out, they're screwed.  If he can, that's great.   feast or famine.


2. A Catcher - I could see them trying to find a catcher through trade.  But they might hope Cervelli gets healthy.

If Cervelli is healthy, he's decent.  If he's not, they have no depth.  If they make a deal, that's probably the best option.


3. A Third Basemen - not easy to find a good one. They need Kang.

Kang plays - they'll upgrade from this season.  Kang doesn't play - they're screwed.



4. They need to decide McCutchen's fate.

Can they get anything for him?  Probably not what they want.  I'd let him play out his last year in Pittsburgh and walk after 2018. 

They should NOT resign him.  He's not going to be worth what he's going to get paid in his 30's, it's just reality.  Love Cutch though, great-great-great Pirate. 


5. A set up man or two

Given the Pirates history, they'll find a good reliever or two. That's one area they are usually good at finding talent.






If ***everything*** works out, they'll be decent next season.  BUT since that probably won't happen, they need to think of alternate plans.    

Me personally?   I'd sell everything at the deadline next year if they aren't contending, and I mean EVERYTHING.  Cole, Cutch, JHay, Freese, Polanco, basically everyone besides Josh Bell.

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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby 12HankQB » August 31st, 2017, 8:24 am

~X(I'm out
If only closed minds came with closed mouths

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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby Crimson's Ghost » August 31st, 2017, 8:26 am

They sucked for my whole life, I have a hard time being upset about this season. It pales in comparison.

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Re: Pirates vs. Reds Open Thread

Postby 12HankQB » August 31st, 2017, 8:28 am

Oh I'm with ya. I'm used to being bad, but not when the division was as bad as it was and our team "should've" been better. Tear down the stadium so parking prices can go down for the Stiller games.
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