Awards time.

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12HankQB
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Re: Awards time.

Postby 12HankQB » January 1st, 2018, 9:07 am

EnzoLigoniere wrote:Jim,
Your argument holds no water at all.   [font="Lucida Grande", "Trebuchet MS", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]When you play on a good team, as far as defense goes, you aren't going to have the stats as someone that may have played on a team that relied on 1-2 guys to make a lot of plays.  And I think sometimes hurts a kid in awards like this.  If Noah Dillow played on a 3-7 team he'd have a million tackles. He's still the same player on Chestnut Ridge, they just happened to have a good team defense.[/font]
Ferndale gave up 197
Forest Hills gave up 189
Chestnut Ridge gave up 187.
all of these were excellent defenses.  All teams won in the playoffs.  All had TEAMS with multiple contributors, not just 1-2 players as you pointed out in your post.  
Kinsey   157  tackles   15 tackles for losses    (not to mention that he led the area in passing, since as previous poster mention that is what got Barber from Johnstown on the first team defense, as he had less than impressive numbers as a defensive player.)
Elgin      142 tackles   12 tackles for losses 1 sack
Dillow    108 tackles   11 tackles for loses   1 sack

Collin Smith only had 74 tackles his senior year. If it weren't for Parrish, I would've had no problem with him as defensive MVP. Dillow plays just like Smith on D. He enjoys ruining people's days with brute force.
You can't just go by tackles.


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Awards time.

Postby DragonsDoExist » January 1st, 2018, 12:26 pm

Yeah MaxPreps tackle stats are the worst. For years there was a mountain league team that would always have the top tackler and like 3 of the top 5. It was pretty comical. I will admit I've never seen the Ferndale kid play but I've seen Ridge and FH on multiple occasions and would take Dillow over Elgin. Not a knock on Elgin at all. Dillow is just the faster, more athletic LB in my opinion. I'd take both on my team.


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Re: Awards time.

Postby PCmor » January 3rd, 2018, 3:39 am

I've found you always have to take tackle stats with a bit of a grain of salt. Particularly when you look at what gets recorded on MaxPreps.
Since I've been with the Altoona Mirror, we've always used the NCAA stat-keeping rules, and our reporters can use those for keeping all the main offensive stats. As it is, there've been several occasions where teams list players with 1,000 yards rushing or passing and we don't even have them close to that. Not saying our reporters always are right, but we actually have guidelines and there are rules sometimes that can affect yardage if a statistician doesn't follow them.
For tackles, IIRC, NCAA stats allows one tackle and one assist. There are a number of teams out there that give way more than one assist per play. We have teams that only give one tackle per play, also, and no assist. 
I thought this year I noticed one team had abnormally high sack numbers, so I went back and compared stuff we had for some games. In NCAA and HS rules, a sack counts as a running play and negative yardage rushing. We had games where this team had more sacks than the other team's quarterback had rushing attempts, which is mathematically impossible.
So, not only were they counting more than two players on a tackle per play, they didn't give half-sacks or half-tackles for loss. If two guys were in on a sack, they were counting both players with a full sack.
That doesn't even take into consideration things like the defensive scheme or the offensive approach -- is a guy in on a lot of tackles because the opponent continually attacks him; maybe he's making tackles 7 yards downfield, and maybe he's missing a higher percentage. Maybe a defensive lineman is occupying double-teams that frees up an LB to basically run downhill every play and load up his numbers.
I knew a kid, really good kid, who got like 150 tackles for three straight years on teams that I think were like a combined 5-25. He might have 40 solos each year and 110 assists. One year, a team that went 0-10 had two kids make all-state on defense because the tackle numbers their newspaper used in nominating them were skewed.
When I coordinate the Mirror all-area defensive selections, I try to look at how the defense did overall, where a team's coach nominated respective players and then what kind of league all-star recognition they might have gotten. Then I look at stats, and the first things I look for are solo tackles and takeaways. If I see a kid getting up over 60 initial hits and maybe has four interceptions and forced three fumbles on a defense that allowed less than 3 yards per carry, that catches my attention.
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Altoona Mirror

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Re: Awards time.

Postby DragonsDoExist » January 3rd, 2018, 3:51 am

PCmor wrote:I've found you always have to take tackle stats with a bit of a grain of salt. Particularly when you look at what gets recorded on MaxPreps.
Since I've been with the Altoona Mirror, we've always used the NCAA stat-keeping rules, and our reporters can use those for keeping all the main offensive stats. As it is, there've been several occasions where teams list players with 1,000 yards rushing or passing and we don't even have them close to that. Not saying our reporters always are right, but we actually have guidelines and there are rules sometimes that can affect yardage if a statistician doesn't follow them.
For tackles, IIRC, NCAA stats allows one tackle and one assist. There are a number of teams out there that give way more than one assist per play. We have teams that only give one tackle per play, also, and no assist. 
I thought this year I noticed one team had abnormally high sack numbers, so I went back and compared stuff we had for some games. In NCAA and HS rules, a sack counts as a running play and negative yardage rushing. We had games where this team had more sacks than the other team's quarterback had rushing attempts, which is mathematically impossible.
So, not only were they counting more than two players on a tackle per play, they didn't give half-sacks or half-tackles for loss. If two guys were in on a sack, they were counting both players with a full sack.
That doesn't even take into consideration things like the defensive scheme or the offensive approach -- is a guy in on a lot of tackles because the opponent continually attacks him; maybe he's making tackles 7 yards downfield, and maybe he's missing a higher percentage. Maybe a defensive lineman is occupying double-teams that frees up an LB to basically run downhill every play and load up his numbers.
I knew a kid, really good kid, who got like 150 tackles for three straight years on teams that I think were like a combined 5-25. He might have 40 solos each year and 110 assists. One year, a team that went 0-10 had two kids make all-state on defense because the tackle numbers their newspaper used in nominating them were skewed.
When I coordinate the Mirror all-area defensive selections, I try to look at how the defense did overall, where a team's coach nominated respective players and then what kind of league all-star recognition they might have gotten. Then I look at stats, and the first things I look for are solo tackles and takeaways. If I see a kid getting up over 60 initial hits and maybe has four interceptions and forced three fumbles on a defense that allowed less than 3 yards per carry, that catches my attention.
Philip Cmor
Altoona Mirror


Well said. From the Blitz magazine to the Saturday morning coverage, keep up the great work. Mirror coverage continues to be top notched. Thanks Philip!


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Re: Awards time.

Postby Manfred » January 3rd, 2018, 8:21 am

Thanks Mr. Cmor. I still wish I didn't have to travel 15 mi. to Ebensburg to get a daily Mirror copy if I want, and not have to wait till mid afternoon for the USPS to deliver a copy of 'old news'.
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Re: Awards time.

Postby CRSD83 » January 3rd, 2018, 9:44 am

Manfred wrote:Thanks Mr. Cmor.  I still wish I didn't have to travel 15 mi. to Ebensburg to get a daily Mirror copy if I want, and not have to wait till mid afternoon for the USPS to deliver a copy of 'old news'.

Yes, the Mirror's sports coverage is the best around.  I subscribe to the mirror on-line and it is usually available between 5:00 and 5:30 am.  You can open it up in .pdf format and it's just like looking at the hard copy.  It's also searchable which is really nice.  You can also go back and look at older issues as well.

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Re: Awards time.

Postby 12HankQB » January 3rd, 2018, 9:58 am

CRSD83 wrote:
Manfred wrote:Thanks Mr. Cmor.  I still wish I didn't have to travel 15 mi. to Ebensburg to get a daily Mirror copy if I want, and not have to wait till mid afternoon for the USPS to deliver a copy of 'old news'.

Yes, the Mirror's sports coverage is the best around.  I subscribe to the mirror on-line and it is usually available between 5:00 and 5:30 am.  You can open it up in .pdf format and it's just like looking at the hard copy.  It's also searchable which is really nice.  You can also go back and look at older issues as well.

Do you have to be a member to go back that far? I was trying to go back to the 2000's and could not find stuff.
Also, I haven't seen it in a while, but the Bedford Gazette always covered the Bedford County schools really well. Always enjoyed it.
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Re: Awards time.

Postby DragonsDoExist » January 18th, 2018, 8:46 pm

PA Football News released their All-State 3A teams today...

1st Team
ATH Jon Long FH
DL Rilee Bechdel BEA
P Andrew Hudy Huntingdon

2nd Team
DL Austin Garner Central
DL Ben Lauver Juniata
LB Jared Smith Central
DB Davis Kline Bedford
DB Jonathan Price Huntingdon

Honorable Mention
RB Ian Border Huntingdon
OL Luke Williams FH
LB Eric Elgin FH
LB Denver Light Tyrone
DB Gage McClenahan BEA

OPY Ricky Guss QB QV
DPY Jesse Luketa LB MP


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Re: Awards time.

Postby Manfred » January 19th, 2018, 9:00 am

Bravo for Luke Williams, FH's behemoth DT. Did not play between Jr. High and this year's BGU game, where he made a monstrous debut against the Marauders. How I wish he was coming back, or would have played the past few years.
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