Ligonier Valley

[RZBZNZ]

Aren't conferences about geography? There are already enough classifications for districts.

And just wait until Saltsburg, Homer, and Blairsville merge and start kicking LV's butt. Then Purchase Line, Penns Manor and Marion Center will do the same. LOL

[Manfred]

I think context needs to be added when talking about school size and the ability to forecast.

Johnstown enrollment is dropping while the Richlands, Somerset, Forest Hills, CR, Penn Cambria are increasing.

LV enrollment has been steady or slightly increasing while the NC, United, Saltsburg, PM, MC are going down.

That is the problem in 3-5 years Jtown will probably be the same size or slightly bigger than every school outside of privates in LHAC.

A couple years ago, FH GRADUATED 182 kids.  This past June it was 138.  By comparison, Richland graduated 113.  So they're getting bigger, huh?  

[PAgridder2011]

As much as I agree that the bigger schools have the advantage because of the numbers (that's why there are different classifications), the program/coach/sd still has to be doing something right.  Someone brought up the LHAC, Johnstown has a boys enrollment of 330.  The average enrollment for the rest of the public schools in the conference is 211.  That is a bigger difference than LV has.  The next biggest public school in the conference is Somerset with a boys enrollment of 270 - nearly 20% smaller.  3 of the 4 smallest public schools in the conference, based on current PIAA boys enrollment numbers, are Richland (188), Chestnut Ridge (193), and Forest Hills (198).  Schools with pretty decent sports programs.  But I'm pretty sure that if Johnstown was winning like LV is currently winning, this conversation would be about them.  It seems as though nobody likes a consistent winner except their own fans.

Respectfully, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.  When you have a large enrollment gap in smaller schools it makes much more of a difference.  To have a complete football program you need about 45-55 players on your roster.  Figuring about 1/2 your roster is actually fit to be on a varsity football field, you would have a pretty legitimate 2 deep roster, you would have the ability to play JV, most importantly you would be able to get a great look in practice.  Ligonier has 50 players on their roster, The Heritage average is about 35.  
Regarding Johnstown, with that enrollment they should have 60 to 70 kids on the team.  They have 55,  Guilfoyle has 46, McCort 40 but the privates generally have fewer of those kids that are playing to wear a jersey, most are actual players.  Somerset 43, Central Cambria 40,  Richland 47. Penn Cambria 42, Forest Hills 53, Bedford 45.  That seems pretty even to me.  Every school is playing JV Football, Every school is getting a decent look in practice.  Once you have an enrollment that is capable of a 50 man roster with about a 20% participation or less, you have a chance to compete.  Has any LHAC won 30 straight games by mercy rule? 
Penns Manor has 34 kids on their roster.  Their Participation rate for grades 9-12 is 23%,  Ligonier's participation rate is about 19%.   Yet Ligonier has 16 more players.  Every school aside from West Shamokin and Marion Center has no chance to match Ligonier's Roster Size.  Again, Mathematically impossible, given even a 30% participation rate which is unheard of.  That means 7 of the 9 teams are at a monumental disadvantage. 
Bear in mind this just my opinion, you may think none of this stuff matters.  This has nothing to do with their coaching staff or players.  As I've said over and over, they are very well coached.  The kids work their tails.  But so do kids from Homer Center.  Last season Homer was decent, beat McCort in the first round.  They were absolutely destroyed by Ligonier, as they were this year. 
Football aside, I believe this is a safety issue more than anything.  When Homer sat the QB, Their back up, a physically mature senior was injured, so they had a third stringer in there.  More coaches are going to sit their starters when the games get out of hand.  If they do that before the Ligonier kids get their numbers there will be physically immature kids out there against 17 and 18 year old well trained and tenacious athletes.  That's when there are going to problems far greater than any blow outs. 

[Aiks19]

For giggles, let’s just say Ligonier decides they want in the LHAC. Who is the LHAC kicking out? You’re not going to have a conference with an odd number of teams.


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[upnorth]

For giggles, let’s just say Ligonier decides they want in the LHAC. Who is the LHAC kicking out? You’re not going to have a conference with an odd number of teams.


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They could invite BC back into the fold.

[BlueYonder]

Here are my thoughts on this subject as an LV resident and fan:

1.  I absolutely wanted LV to move to the WPIAL (first choice) or the LHAC after they consolidated.  Geographically there is not that much of a difference and it would have been a better fit with size of schools.  But they didn't.  I think they should continue to pursue that.  That being said...
2.  None of the conferences in D6/D5 have all one classification in their respective leagues and there is going to be a "largest school" in each of the conferences.  I really don't think the disparity in the Heritage is that much different than other conferences - but that dead horse has been beaten.  FYI WS was the largest in the Heritage a couple years ago.
3.  For those of you who think this is going to be a yearly thing, I don't know about that.  I think this was primarily the result of a bubble of kids in LV the past four years.  Prior to 2016, but after the consolidation, LV only won the conference once in six years.  They had some 7-1 seasons in there with some blowouts - but it was no where near like the last four years.  5 D1 players plus Elijah Parrish, Jackson Daugherty,  and a lot of other just really good ball players in four consecutive graduating classes.  They are starting 8 or 9 seniors  on both sides of the ball this year.  They only have four or five juniors this year.  I think they also only have about 17 kids on the junior high team (7th and 8th grades).   
4.  The other issue is just size of schools and football participation.  Every year the schools around here are getting smaller.  Every year more kids either play soccer or specialize in another sport and don't play football.  A lot of small A schools in the day would have 40 or more kids without freshmen.  With the school size and participation, schools either need to co-op or consolidate so that you can put a half decent size team on the field.  Every year now we have two or three teams in D6/5 that can hardly field a team.   There are several other teams that do not play JV games.  By the way, I am a proponent of consolidation for fiscal and academic reasons.  I'm not suggesting that you consolidate so that you can play JV football.
Just my opinions.

[Crushersports]

I'm curious if anyone has data on the participation numbers since schools were forced to move 9th graders to varsity in the various conferences.
I understand moving them up to have a JV schedule, but if they don't go out you cripple a JV team and a junior high team as well.
I don't like it, very few freshmen are physically mature enough to compete at the varsity level. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule but by far and large most aren't.
I never did support the move, although I understand what it was trying to accomplish but I just wondered if there was any data out there to show the numbers.

[konjo78]

Remember a little over 10 years ago when d6 wanted to rebrand into smaller divisions based on geography and class? Honestly they should really look to do that here. Id much like a system of 6 team divisions where you have half division games, and half games you schedule yourself.

[Manfred]

Remember a little over 10 years ago when d6 wanted to rebrand into smaller divisions based on geography and class? Honestly they should really look to do that here. Id much like a system of 6 team divisions where you have half division games, and half games you schedule yourself.

That is an interesting option.  For example the LHAC could rotate their schedule as they have been, only with a couple more teams being off your schedule every year.  This would allow for the resuming of long-time neighbor rivalries like FH vs Portage, Richland vs Windber, etc.  Good gravy, the Mustang-Ranger rivalries used to have crowds in the THOUSANDS in attendance at these games.  You couldn't move anywhere around the perimeter of the fields, even in the end zones they were 6 or 8 people deep SRO!

[CharlieConway]

Remember a little over 10 years ago when d6 wanted to rebrand into smaller divisions based on geography and class? Honestly they should really look to do that here. Id much like a system of 6 team divisions where you have half division games, and half games you schedule yourself.

That is an interesting option.  For example the LHAC could rotate their schedule as they have been, only with a couple more teams being off your schedule every year.  This would allow for the resuming of long-time neighbor rivalries like FH vs Portage, Richland vs Windber, etc.  Good gravy, the Mustang-Ranger rivalries used to have crowds in the THOUSANDS in attendance at these games.  You couldn't move anywhere around the perimeter of the fields, even in the end zones they were 6 or 8 people deep SRO!

Yes sir!  Shouldnt this be what it is actually about.  The border school rivalry??  Ask kids, or think back, what you wanted or the kids actually want.  I believe its to play in a big one with a great atmosphere.  Just the opportunity to have that, I believe most kids would enjoy that experience.  That is what it should be about, but hey, contact your local athletic director, see if they want this!!!  Nooo! They wouldn't want to be responsible for the crowd control or the "student section" doing something offensive.  "Cant we just keep doing what we are doing?"  They love the "buddy system."  

We need some cowboys in the athletic office to start seeing the big picture.  I see a lot of complaining on here about the PIAA, I believe you should start marching in the office of the "old head" in the athletic office.  You can get more head way if you put a little pressure on the "old guard."

Good luck tho, them boys don't like "change."  They don't like controversy, crowd control, or student sections.  They like the little spending money and status quo.

I'd love to see a Rambler vs Ram, or a Ranger vs Mustang, and you know what, they kids (athletes, band, student section) would love it and you would create a memory for a lifetime.

Old dog - say no.  We need conference.