Ligonier Valley

[footballguy99]

Size means more than about anything when it comes to football. Demographics means something too. Bellwood is different than the rest of the conference. I’m not throwing them under the bus. They play who they play, I’m just drawing a comparison to LV. Both teams do similar things W-l wise, but one seems to be respected like crazy and a non issue while the other one is looked upon in a very negative light.

If BA played the Mountain Conference schedule and went 5-5, they wouldn’t be looked at with such reverence. They’d feel like the teams in the ICC who have to deal with being smaller like Juniata Valley. I believe BA is in the right conference but they aren’t a lot different than LV. If both went to the Mtn Conference, they could handle it and that Conference would be even better than it is now.

Imagine if BA and LV played
Central
Huntingdon
Bellefonte
Tyrone
Penns Valley
Bald Eagle
P-O
BC
Etc.


At the same time, imagine if P-O and BC were in the ICC. Would that change the perception of those programs? See how all this works?

[Aiks19]

Someone already said this earlier . But Bellwood isn’t that much bigger than most ICC and are far from being the largest. Plus Bellwood is consistently hanging 50 and 60 points on people. One more thing. Over the last couple of seasons, everyone knows LV will win the Heritage. Where in the ICC , there are potential contenders that people think can give Bellwood a run. Two years ago it was NBC, last year JV now this year people like Tussey.


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[Aiks19]

I meant to say..isn’t consistently hanging 50 and 60


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[sportsfan1072]

PA Gridder, I agree with some of your points, but I don't think it's apples to oranges. You are just looking at roster numbers for this year - a year Johnstown is down and the others are closer to average roster numbers. over the past 8 seasons, Johnstown averages 69 (as high as 87) kids on the roster, Central Cambria averages 47 (as high as 57). Roster numbers taken from Max Preps. That is a pretty big difference - that's as big or bigger than some schools entire team.

Meanwhile, there is tiny little Portage with a boys enrollment of only 121 with an average roster size of 55 (high of 66) over that same time period. Portage perennially is a good team, but a lot of that is culture and winning program. Ever go to Portage on a Friday Night in the fall for a home game, good luck finding a seat. I haven't been to many other single A schools games, is it the same?

So as far as you saying that some of the schools cant' field a team as large as LV, I would disagree. Portage does.

[PAgridder2011]

PA Gridder, I agree with some of your points, but I don't think it's apples to oranges.  You are just looking at roster numbers for this year - a year Johnstown is down and the others are closer to average roster numbers.  over the past 8 seasons, Johnstown averages 69 (as high as 87) kids on the roster, Central Cambria averages 47 (as high as 57).  Roster numbers taken from Max Preps.  That is a pretty big difference - that's as big or bigger than some schools entire team.  

Meanwhile, there is tiny little Portage with a boys enrollment of only 121 with an average roster size of 55 (high of 66) over that same time period.  Portage perennially is a good team, but a lot of that is culture and winning program.  Ever go to Portage on a Friday Night in the fall for a home game, good luck finding a seat.  I haven't been to many other single A schools games, is it the same?  

So as far as you saying that some of the schools cant' field a team as large as LV, I would disagree.  Portage does.

I've gotta admit you picked a pretty good anomaly there in Portage.  However, I'm going to clarify a few things that perhaps permit Portage to deviate from the Norm, if I may.  #1 "little tiny Portage" is, in fact, the largest Single A school in PIAA District 6.  #2 "little tiny Portage is the 5th largest school in the West Pac and is 6 kids away from the 3 spot.  #3  "little tiny Portage" has an outstanding program with a winning tradition.  However it may surprise you to know that "little tiny Portage has fueled the bulk of that tradition beating up 3 teams half their size and one 3/4 their size.  Over the last 10 years Portage is 46-4 against Shade, Blacklick, Ferndale, and C Valley (.920)
Portage is a more realistic 28-12 (.700) against the top 1/2, including 10-0 against North Star, another anomaly.  Most of their losses come from 2A Berlin.  If you take away a horrible 2A (North Star) program they are 18-12 against the top 1/2.  Kids want to play for winners.  Portage runs a great program, has great coaching, and tremendous community support.  This leads me to #4.  Portage does not offer Soccer or Cross Country.  Aside from the 6 man golf team, football is the only game in town.  But the math doesn't lie.  Even with higher roster numbers, they rarely make deep run in the play-offs because of those 50 kids, probably 10-15 just want to be a part of the program but will never make meaningful contributions (and that's ok because those kids will learn a heck of lot being around a guy like Portage's Coach (Gouse??), not only about football, but life lessons.  Statistically, you have a better chance of finding that 4.6 kid, or 6-2 280lb lineman in a group of 260 kids over 160 kids.  (that's a 4-year enrollment projection for Liggy and Portage).
Now if you want to compare Ligonier to Johnstown.  Your comparing 260 to 400.  Yes Johnstown should have a good chance of finding 24 players that look like tarzan and play like tarzan but Liggy should still be able to find 24 in that 260.
Last year Shade (with a 4 year enrollment of about 94) and having the best season in school history was asked to Play Ligonier.  Now really, how could anyone expect a school 36% the size of Ligonier to compete?  Forget about winning, I'm talking about just competing.  You would have to find not one or two, but five lineman that are around 6'0 and 250 to 270.  Out of 94 boys?  Half of which are Freshman or Sophomores?  Good luck. 
You can can continue to look for anomalies to my argument.  However, I just asked for one.  I asked anyone to find 1 2A team in the entire state that was in a conference where their enrollment is 79 over the average of the rest of the conference.  We'll just have to agree to disagree and that's ok.  Feel free to have the last word, if I don't respond, it won't be because I don't respect your opinion, it's just time to move on, but I'll read it. 
By the way a lot of great responses in this thread about ways to improve high school football in district 6.  I love the 5 or 6 team sections based on geography and enrollment that allows teams to schedule based on their needs.  If that ever passes, I've got bad news for Bellwood,  Williamsburg probably isn't going to be calling.  That would be the end of that meaningful rivalry. 

[upnorth]

One important item to not overlook when considering having 4-5 out-of-conference games is just how difficult it can be to schedule football games. Ask any AD/school that had an "independent" schedule (e.g. CR, SJCA, etc). You have to be willing to travel long distances and play schools that may be significantly larger or smaller than you.

While I'm a fan of the idea that schools have 1-2 out-of-conference games per year, I can't see the majority of ADs signing up for more work!

[youngbuck]

This whole LV bashing seems to mirror the bashing that Bishop Carroll got when they dominated the Old Appalachian Conference and were then not invited to the formation of the present Heritage conference. Where does Beitel and staff fit into all of this. Do they do that much of a better job than the other coaches in the conference or is it purely that they have more kids. It is obvious that once Sponsky left BC, things went down hill quickly. Other than Page at Homer, is there quality coaching in the Heritage conference?
If the Heritage were do redo and exclude LV, who would be invited to play?

[Goldeneagles12]

We are human. We always got to complain about something. Lol That being said it will die down. Right now LV is on a good run. Just hope that the fans are ready when it does go cause sometimes it smacks you right in the teeth cough cough 2016 Tyrone. Beitel seems like a good coach has another team tried to lure him away from LV?

[huggins]

According to an earlier post in the thread, Beitel’s kids won 1 Heritage a title in 6 years prior to 2016. Is that emblematic of a staff that is supremely dominant? 

[Blueandwhitefan]

This whole LV bashing seems to mirror the bashing that Bishop Carroll got when they dominated the Old Appalachian Conference and were then not invited to the formation of the present Heritage conference.  Where does Beitel and staff fit into all of this.  Do they do that much of a better job than the other coaches in the conference or is it purely that they have more kids.  It is obvious that once Sponsky left BC, things went down hill quickly.  Other than Page at Homer, is there quality coaching in the Heritage conference?  
If the Heritage were do redo and exclude LV, who would be invited to play?

Bill packer at PM has made the the playoffs 12 years straight. (Although that may not happen this year). That also includes some nice district, and state runs. This is the longest CURRENT streak in the heritage. And after 20+ years without a winning season.