States

[odoyelrules]

Strength of schedule is certainly factored into rankings.

Only 15 Regional Champions (the only possible undefeateds going into Hershey) didn't place in the top 5 last year. Demaske of Jefferson Morgan was the only wrestler that was undefeated going into Hershey that didn't finish in the top 5. He lost to undefeated and eventual state champ Moisey in the semifinals. Then dropped a 5-4 decision to Blankenship in the consolations semifinals, Blankenship ended up with 2 total losses on the season. Then Demaske forfeited his 5th place match and finished 6th.

fwiw Demaske was ranked 5th in the 1/20/14 otm rankings.

[Stonycreek]

I would agree to a degree. I don’t think its totally overlooked, but I would say that most of the guys that are ranked higher throughout the year but finish well below there ranking are put there by default. What I mean by that is: wrestlers graduate, they move to different weight classes, there abilities increase or diminish…etc. I get all that. What I don’t get is how you can continually rank guys at the beginning of the year in the top 2 or 3 when they have only placed once or not at all.

With all default categories in mind. Example: Scott Thompson, Freshman year finishes 6th at 182 in 2012. The next year on January 28th 2013 he was ranked 3rd at 182 (not an issue, I can see why he was ranked there). He did not place that year, finishing in the round of 12. Best case scenario 9th – worst case 12th. January 20th 2014 (the next year) he was ranked 3rd at 182. I don’t see how. Again at states, in 2014, he ended up with a round of 12 finish, best case scenario 9th – worst case 12th. This year at 195 he is ranked 2nd. How can a guy who’s highest finish at states is 6th place three years ago, be ranked 2nd at 195 this year? If you do the math and give him a best case scenario for the round of 12’s, he should be ranked 8th. Scott might finish in the top 5 this year and if he does I will be the first to congratulate him. He is a good wrestler and has proven that. I just don’t see how you can continually rank wrestler in the top 2 or 3 when your highest placement was 6th three years ago.

[silvrnblk11]

6 of the top 8 in his weight class graduated.

[Stonycreek]

I think that proves my point. He was awarded his ranking by default. Placing in the round of 12 in 2013 and being ranked in the top three all year only to finish in the round of 12 in 2014. Where you finish at states the prior year is more of an indication of where you will finish at states in the present year, more so than your ranking. This is also why strength of schedule isn't looked at as much as it should be. Imo.

[Chiefwapum]

Although you may have a point (Stony Creek) I am missing something in the argument. Are you saying he should be ranked lower since he didn't place last year. And if so who do you rank ahead of him? Someone who hasn't even qualified for states or someone who possibly qualified but failed to place? Either scenario you end up
right back to your original argument, as there are simply not that many returning place winners. As far as strength of schedule I looked at Track and noticed that the same wrestler you are referring to beat a returning state place winner not once but, twice already this year. I would think that might justify his ranking. Just cant seem to wrap my mind around your argument. Please elaborate

[Stonycreek]

He was ranked in the top three the past two years after finishing in the round of 12, (two years in a row). Shouldn't that tell us that the ranking system is a bit off. Like I said numbers don't lie, if you do the averages he finished 6th and then had two round of twelve finishes. If you divide that by three you get 9. If you want to know where I think he should be ranked last year, its below the 6-9 wrestlers that finished ahead of him. All default rankings aside, if he doesn't finish in the top three this year, how can you justify the ranking system? If he is ranked in the top three all year and finishes in the round of twelve again, how can you say that his rank all year was correct? Yes this year he has beaten Oliver twice. Last year he beat fields and lost to Zavatsky the 182 lb AAA state champ by TF 20-5. So with his sixth place finish three years ago and beating Fields and Oliver twice this year, I still don't see how he can be ranked third. He just hasn't proven that he is the 3rd best wrestler in the state. He just doesn't have a long list of quality wins because he hasn't wrestled them throughout the year until he gets to states and the last two years he has gone 1-2 there. D. Reynolds finished 3rd last year,
L. Womelsdorf finished 5th, A. Hummel finished 7th. these three guys proved they can win two matches at states. Scott hasn't been able to do that for three years.

[odoyelrules]

I agree with Chief. Who is more deserving of a high ranking?

With Oliver seeded @ 220, that leaves only 5 returning state qualifiers @ 195, the top 5 seeds per OTM. Thompson had a win over #5 Buttry last year @ SW regionals, fwiw.

Thompson this year has 19 1st period falls/forfeits, 4 other falls, 1 technical fall, 1 major decision (Smith Meyersdale), and 2 regular decisions over returning #7 @ PIAAs Oliver.

With that said, I do wish that Blairsville was still going to the Thomas tournament...OTM #4,5,8, & 10 are scheduled to be there. + 5 already ranked @ 160 would be adding Doak to the weight.

[Stonycreek]

If a wrestler is ranked 3rd in the state all year, two years in a row, and finishes in the round of twelve both years, how can you justify that the ranking system is correct. If he really was the third best wrestler in the state, then he should have finished closer to third then to the round of 16.

[Chiefwapum]

I do understand your point to some extent, However, I do not think any ranking system can or ever will be correct. It is merely a guide to a person
or group of peoples perceptions. It seems to have your goat "so to speak" and I wouldn't let it bother you either way. Not really worth the aggravation.
You can look at it two different ways. 1. It can be used as motivation for the lower or not ranked wrestler 2. It can be used as motivation for a wrestler to
prove they deserve to be where they are or 3. My personal favorite ( throw them out the window and wrestle) use them for entertainment only as In my experience
they do nothing but, cause wrestlers undo pressure (if they buy into that crap)

[Stonycreek]

I agree. Rankings are merely a topic of conversation. I was only interested in seeing what people would say about it. However, sometimes they do help with determining a good upset.