Morgan to the Nats...

[abpk2903]

Coach you are missing my point. My point is not that Morgan was that good. In fact, Morgan is an average at best ball player. The point is he is better than what a lot of the teams in the league has. Why make this trade? I also was not saying at all that Moss, Morgan, McCutchen was a good outfield but its better than what we now possess. No one could convince me that Lastings Milledge is the best player the Pirates could find for Morgan. If it is i'm not to sure I would pull the trigger on the trade this far from the trading deadline. Seriously folks, in the last year the Pirates have traded way Bay, Nady, McLouth, Hinske, and now Morgan all from the outfield. These are not just Bucco bums but rather fairly decent outfielders.

[Coach]

No, I didn't miss your point. I just disagree with your assessment of Morgan. He isn't better than what a lot of people have.

He hits .270, has little power, and 18 stolen bases.

I can find a bunch of those guys league wide.


I read a post the other day on ESPN where they were saying this was a good trade for the Pirates and said you never really know this early what it will be like but they felt Huntingdon was doing things a lot like Tampa did.


Trading Nady and Bay got us Moss, Ohlendorf, Karstens, and Andy LaRoche as well as Tabata. I'll take that...especially since Nady isn't a young pup. Those 4 are all with the big club now (Tabata isn't but is highly regarded) and are young enough that in their prime with some of the new blood...the Pirates if they keep THESE pieces may finally break through a bit.

Andy Laroche
Cutch (who doesn't love this guy)
Moss
Tabata
Milledge
Hanrahan
Ohlendorf
Maholm
Duke
Snell
Gorkys Hernandez
Alvarez (potential stud)
Charlie Morton (didn't realize he was this young til I looked it up)
Doumit
Capps
Meek
Lincoln
Walker

That is a very young group of players, but it is the kind of group the Pirates can finally win with. When I look at ages of those guys I see a ton in the 23-26 range. The Pirates are now a very young team and hopefully they can add a few more parts. I'm hoping that trading Laroche or Wilson will give them some infield talent. I like Freddie and really wouldn't like to lose him but he is just as old as Jack. The only problem is... I don't see replacements for our middle infield like we've had for the OF spots. I don't like Bixler and Shelby Ford is not ready yet for sure.... That's where we need to get a major league ready guy. Right now those are the two weakest spots in the organization. I see guys who could be future all stars...not because the team HAS to have one, but because they are actually good enough to be all star caliber players.


Anyway... I really believe it is a great move for the Pirates because of the potential star status Milledge has. Even if it doesn't come to fruition for him, the Pirates have Jones, Gorkys, and Pearce...all of whom I think could hit around 270. They'd lose the speed with most of them but they might have better run production.

I like what I see from Huntingdon. Our depleted system is starting to get revitalized a little bit.

[deliverance]

Coach, I agree with the majority of your assessment except this part.

"He hits .270, has little power, and 18 stolen bases. I can find a bunch of those guys league wide."

If you would, please find those guys for me. The only ones that come to my mind are Juan Pierre and Michael Bourn in the National League. Morgan has driven is more runs than both of those guys and is a better defensive player. Morgan was hitting .270 in his first full big league season. That's pretty good if you ask me. He reminds me a lot of Juan Pierre, whom is making $10 million this season. I don't think Morgan will ever be worth that kind of money, but he will be a good player for a lot of years. The Pirates got a few nice pieces last year in their trades of Bay and Nady, but have been abused this year in their trades. As I have said before, the Pirates rarely ever get a big time name in trades. Andy LaRoche has been about it. That's not good when you aren't able to develop guys like Sean Burnett. You named a lot of guys above, but who's the number one starter? Who's the power bat of the future? If you are trying to revitalize a system like the Rays did, then you better have young guys like Scott Kazmir, Matt Garza, and Evan Longoria in your system. Do the Pirates really have that? I'm not seeing it if they do.

[Coach]

These guys are all very similar to Nyjer...

Matt Kemp...but a decent amount better than Nyjer
Brett Gardner
Willy Taveras
Willie Bloomquist
Dexter Fowler
Alex Rios
Denard Span (Who?)..very much like Morgan stat wise all around.. he plays for the Twins by the way.
Nelson Cruz


According to most baseball experts in articles I've read...the Pirates are far from having been fleeced in trades this year. Many think this was a semi risky but very good trade.

Also... I did look it up...the blazing Morgan leads the entire major league in times caught stealing: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bypos ... =1&sort=12

The next highest is 7.


I'm not trying to rip the guy, but holy crud...he was hitting 277 with 2 HR, 27 RBI, and 39 runs. 18 steals...great. 10 caught...blah.


Not mentioned in any of this is the fact that I also feel the Bucs got the better pitcher in the trade as well. Hanrahan had a great 08 from the pen and struck out over a guy per inning which is awesome. If they get him back under control he'll also be a better addition to the team than Burnett.


Anyway...back to watching Charlie Morton work over the Marlins! 5 innings of 1 hit ball so far for him...and the tail on his pitch is awesome. Seriously, the kid has some good stuff. I like that we have guys that throw mid 90s at times now versus a bunch of 88-92 guys.

[Coach]

Oh...and no they don't have a number one, but for years they had a lot of 4 and 5 type guys. I now feel like they are getting a whole lot of future 3 type guys that could turn into #2 starters.

Morton
Ohlendorf
Gorzo
Maholm
Duke
Snell
Vasquez
Lincoln


That is a group of talented guys that have no shot at being 1's, but they COULD be 2's. Mostly 3 type guys though and I think five 3's isn't bad to roll with, especially if one or two of them pan out to be 3.50 ERA guys with 12-14 wins.

[philip's dad]

Coach I do agree with you about Morgan. I wasn't that upset when I heard about that trade, but can you or anybody else explain the McLouth trade. Because I still don't understand it!! If you were going to bring up Cutch, then why don't keep Nate and put him in right field. An outfield of Morgan, Cutch, and McLouth would not have been a bad outfield. I agree about Jack and Freddie also. Why doesn't the great GM start getting some help in the middle because you are right Bixler is NOT the answer. If you don't have to replace them than you better keep them even though they are both in their 30s'.

[abpk2903]

This is a very respectable rotation that I feel is less than 2 years away:
-Maholm
-Duke
-Lincoln (IMO, he is the best we got in the minors)
-Morton (starting to make the McLouth trade respectable)
-Ohlendorf (very impressed with him in his first year as a starter)

That way even if a few do have stays on the DL the Buccos still got Gorzo, Snell, and Vasquez to spot start.

That is a rotation that will give the potential to win 90 games.

Not very often does someone change my opinion but coach you have brought up some very great points. I am still not sold on the guy we got for Morgan but at least this GM is not happy (or appears unhappy) with playing even .500 ball. A lot of chips have to fall perfectly in place for this to be a playoff team but at least now some chips are starting to fall. Huntington is putting his job on the line and these moves very well could have him fired in a few years or he could look like the biggest genus in the league. Time will tell.

[deliverance]

"Matt Kemp...but a decent amount better than Nyjer
Brett Gardner
Willy Taveras
Willie Bloomquist
Dexter Fowler
Alex Rios
Denard Span (Who?)..very much like Morgan stat wise all around.. he plays for the Twins by the way.
Nelson Cruz"

Matt Kemp is a very good player already. Nyjer Morgan isn't even in the same league.
Brett Gardner is a player a lot like Nyjer Morgan. Good point. He's getting playing time on the best hitting team in Major League Baseball. Who wouldn't want a guy like that? Not the Pirates.
Willy Taveras is hitting like .230. Morgan is a much more talented player.
Willie Bloomquist? That's a slap in the face to Nyjer Morgan.
Dexter Fowler is hitting .250. Morgan is a career .290 hitter. Not even close to the same level.
Alex Rios has some power added in with speed. If Morgan turns out to be Rios, the Bucs got hosed big time.
Denard Span is a sneaky player just like Morgan. I've seen Span play and I actually like him. He had 5 hits last night in case you were wondering.
Nelson Cruz....I hope you were joking. Nelson Cruz has like 20 homeruns.

I am not saying that Nyjer Morgan is a great player or ever will be one. He will always hit in the .275-.300 range with 30-40 stolen bases a season. That's the type of player any team can use except the Pirates.

As far as Hanrahan goes, the guy throws hard and that's about the extent of it. Did you see his brilliant outing last night? He gave up 3 hits, 2 runs, and walked one all in the matter of an inning. Get use to that. Wait, he did strike out two batters to keep up his more than a strikeout per inning. His ERA now stands at 7.79. That's most definitely worthy of being a future closer for the Buccos.

[Coach]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6636

He is hitting .266, 1 HR, 14 RBI, 24 runs, 14 steals


Very similar to what Nyjer is doing right now.


All the guys I listed were guys hitting in the 250-280 range with 14 or more steals.


Anyway, end of conversation from my end. I know Span had all those hits last night too. I also know that Morgan and McClouth were like 1-11 combined last night. A guy isn't made in a day. Well Nyjer better hope he is....he is now 29 years old.

[deliverance]

You're right. A guy isn't made in a day just like a team isn't made by trading away their best players for medicore players. End of conversation from my end, too.