Penguins at the quarter pole...

[abpk2903]

We have some hockey fans on here and the pens got to the quarter poll last night with a 4-3 OT win against the Leafs. A few things that stick out to me to this point:

-Sidney Crosby is the best player in the league and it isn't even close. Dupper goes down and they move Kunitz over with Malkin and he doesn't miss a beat. He now has wingers like Comeau and Staling that are having career years 21 games into the season. He constantly is working on different aspects of his game. His defense and checking have improved a lot over the past few seasons. I would argue he has been one of the more physical forwards on the roster. He is playing PK. At 27, his game is still improving. This year we hear that Seguin and Vorachek are the best players in the world but I've heard this before with Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Malkin, Giroux, Toews, Kane, Getzlaf, Perry, and so on. The one player that always remains at the top of the list is Crosby.

-Defense is very good. I don't miss Orpik, one bit. Scuderi is playing much better and I like the combo with Depres a lot. They have been giving Martin the shut down assignments and I think that is going well. I like how they are willing to jump into the the rush and the play offensively because finally have trust that the wingers will cover for them.

-MAF is one of the best in the league and it's time Pittsburgh fans give him the credit that he has earned. Statistically this has been one of his best seasons of his career and the locker room has really seemed to rally around him.

-The 3rd line finally is producing again. Sutter is playing at a similar level as Staal did in '09.

-This coaching staff is finally doing things the right way. Playing north and south, supporting each other exiting the defensive zone, being more efficient at creating favorable match ups for Sid and Geno.

-A winger is despirately needed. Let's hope Bennett can bounce back and no other injuries happen to top 6 forwards. With the carrots that Rutherford has to dangle (slew of NHL ready defensemen) and the cap space Dupper's injury created, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to find one.

[ShortyThePimp]

I agree with all of the above, except for MAF. I don't get what the love affair is with him and I don't consider him to be one of the best in the league. IMO, the Pens just gave a 5 year extension to a marginal goalie at best. The dude got hot at the end of 1 year that led to a cup run. Other than that, take the last few years save % leaders into consideration:
09-10, .902 - good for 35th in the league
10-11, .918 - good for 15th in the league
11-12, .913 - good for 27th in the league
12-13, .916 - good for 21st in the league
13-14, .915 - good for 24th in the league
14-15, .924 - good for 17th so far this year
That's an average of 24th best over that time span. Yes, he may be the Pens all-time wins leader and maybe he has the most wins over the last 5 or 6 years, but I believe that is due to players like Crosby and Malkin and company being able to outscore the opposition in spite of him. Yes, he is having a decent year so far, but I can't help but to think based on previous year's averages, that he's due to go into a slump. I'll enjoy while it lasts, but I don't think he can keep his save % this good over a full season. I use the save % numbers because it's based on 1 shot, 1 save and not how good the defense was playing at that point.

[abpk2903]

Do me a favor and list the active goalies that have won a cup? Who would the pens get that would even compare to him in the FA market? It's easy to blame the goalie for bad defense. For the past 5-6 seasons Shero and Bylsma put all of the focus on offense.

[ShortyThePimp]

I gave you the numbers to support my side. Provide me numbers to support why you think he is great and maybe I'll join the dark side. Like I said, I provided save percentage numbers because they are not based on how good the defense plays. We really can't include Shero and Bylsma in this discussion because the numbers we're talking about are all about ice time and not the offensive/defensive philosophy of the coach/GM.

[ShortyThePimp]

And I'm not saying we could get anyone better in FA, just saying I don't understand the love affair. He is middle of the pack and I don't think he was worth a FIVE year extension.

[abpk2903]

Save percentage has a TON to do with defense. If you are facing a lot of odd man rushes, breakaways, and deflected shots, you aren't gonna save near as shots.

[Manfred]

As much as I'm a fan of 87, he gets sloppy at times, whether it's due to needing to get off the ice at end of shift, or? His lazy pass led to goal #3 for the Leafs the other night. He's great, but he's human. I also like MAF, but thought a 5 yr. deal was somewhat much. He goes for stretches at a lights-out pace, then goes pffffft! for other stretches. Expecting his lights-out play to last thru the Cup final is a bit much. We just have to keep or fingers crossed. Another tough winger is needed. The D has been steady or OK, enough so to get to the Cup. Injuries will happen down the road, the team needs competent depth.

[KirkHerbstreit]

I agree with Shorty on Fleury. I see no statistical proof or visual evidence that he is one of the best in the league. If he is one of the best, Team Canada sure doesn't think so. I will say, thus far, this year he has played very well, but the story will be told during the playoffs. I just don't trust him mentally in the playoffs. I can give statistical and visual proof(youtube) of his playoff failures.

Fleury fans always point to the Pens defensive failures as the reason behind his failures, but the Pens actually had a pretty good defensive system and pretty solid defensive players under Bylsma. It doesn't matter when your goalie gives up 4 goals on 19 shots, however.

The Montreal series was a prime example of the beginning of Fleury's mental breakdown. The Pens dominated the Canadians that entire series, almost doubling their shot output, only to watch Fleury let in soft goals while Halak stood on his head.

I give him a pass during the Tampa Bay Series the following year, because the team played without Crosby and Malkin. Although, he wasn't great.

The Flyers series was an absolute disaster. I have never seen so many backbreaking goals. He played panicked the entire series and the team as a result did the same. The goalie is supposed to be someone who settles the team with big plays. He rattles it with erratic play.

He was pulled the next year and Vokoun took over. You see Elite goalies pulled for a game. Not a Series.

Last year, he was better. He had a few poor moments in the Columbus series going behind the net(a constant issue). He shut out the Rangers twice, where he played great, but towards the end of the series he was outplayed by Lundqvist, especially in game 7 when they needed him most.

There is only 1 group of people who will declare Fleury as one of the best. That is the group of Pens fans who stand behind Fleury no matter. I think a lot of it has to do with Fleury being a good guy. You won't find one member of the national media declare Fleury as one of the best. In fact, many were surprised at his new contract.

[crfball]

The thing with Fleury is what else is out there right now? There is nothing free agency that could be an upgrade. Jarry and Murray are the future but they are not ready yet either

[KirkHerbstreit]

That has been the typical argument with replacing Fleury. "What else is better out there" My answer is always what has he done that others can't? You obviously aren't going to replace him now and I would love for him to prove me wrong this year.

Tomas Vokoun, playing with the same team in front of him that Fleury did, posted a 2.03 GAA and 93.3 save percentage. Fleury has never posted those numbers in the playoffs and honestly has never been close. So, Fleury is not irreplaceable. I think they should have done it this past offseason, because that was the biggest change that needed to be made for the playoffs. I hope he proves me wrong.