Pirates 2018

[knowitall]

And the Pirates haven't finished above 500

[Crimson's Ghost]

Worst professional sports team in America. Worse than the Browns.

Haha I wouldn't go that far. 

[konjo78]

I mean the Marlins are no different from the pirates

[Crimson's Ghost]

I mean I think we all want the same thing -  The Pirates to be good.

My dream is that the Pirates sell to an owner that's serious about winning and invests more in the major leagues and has them competitive on a more annual basis.  But until then....this is where we are.   
I thought this team could contend beyond 2015, but some guys didn't age as well and repeatedly the owner didn't shell out any money. They got stuck.  I just don't think trotting out the same team as the past two years is the answer is all I'm saying.   If we want an aging McCutchen, Freese, Harrison, Cervelli, and Mercer paired with Marte, Polanco, and Bell - that's fine.  I think we can all guess the results. 

The 2017 Pirates were 13/15 in runs, 14th in homers, and 14th in batting average as a team last season. It's just not going to magically get better. 

So my thought is, if they are going to be bad with veterans, might as well be bad with young guys too.  

If I'm wrong, and the Pirates don't trade away the team and they compete this year, I'll be thrilled. I just don't have the same faith as you guys.  I watched the team the past two years, and reality set in for me.  They just aren't as good as I thought and hoped they would be after the 2015 season. Some guys didn't develop, and some guys aged fast.  I think the only way to get off this trajectory is to stop treading water, and find a new ship (so to speak) and start building up that boat. 

[abpk2903]

But why is it that we absolutely have to move on from McCutchen and Cole?  I understand that the Pirates aren't going to big players in the FA marketplace but you got to think they should have the ability to sign players that they drafted.  McCutchen isn't the 2014 McCutchen but he sure is heck is a solid MLB outfielder and great around the clubhouse/community.  He isn't going to demand $20+ million a year in the marketplace but I have got to think if they Pirates offered him 3 or 4 years at $16-18 million per he would consider.  Why not overpay for the one guy in the last 25 years that has earned it for your organization.
Gerrit Cole is even more frustrating.  He will be 27 this season.  The Pirates can control him through the next 2 seasons but they have their fanbase convinced that they have to move him to get something for him.   What????  Give me a break.  You mean to tell me that Pirates fans shouldn't expect some effort to keep a top of the rotation guy that the organization drafted with a top 5 pick?  I mean it's not even like he is a perennial Cy Young candidate either.  He is ONE time all-star.  The Pirates can't even attempt to resign that type of a player???
Lastly, Cleveland has about $25 million in payroll than the Pirates and Baltimore has about $65 million more in payroll.  You can't tell me this team is spending anywhere close to what they can on a competitive roster. 

[Crimson's Ghost]

McCutchen is commanding more than 4 per, why does he have to take a hometown discount?  Gerrit Cole is getting 150 million+ on the open market as well.

It's not some conspiracy theory people are being fed, that's the going rate for players of their caliber. Pirates aren't spending that. 

Again, different owner, maybe that's a reality. This one isn't going to do it. 

I want them to have a different owner, but understanding this is what they have, I want them to make the best baseball decisions with the owner they have.  Running out the same team for a third straight year for sentimental value is leaving the organization in a rut. They need change. They aren't going to sign good players to make that change. The only one to mix it up is by getting younger.


We talk about letting guys walk.  Is that entirely or partially true?  All three outfielders, Harrison, and Cervelli signed extensions here, did they not? Seems a bit mythical and more true in the early 2000's/late 90's when that was absolute fact. The Pirates signed the core to extensions, they've missed the playoffs two years in a row. That's a fact. 

[knowitall]

But what also is true is that they have traded players and got nothing back.  Gerrit Cole May command a $150 million contract in two years.  He can also pitch for the Pirates for two more years for less than twenty.  The Pirates need to take advantage of that, not give him away.

[Wrasslerfan]

Yep.  Brandon Moss, Craig Hansen, Bryan Morris and Andy LaRoche.  Bring them on.  Major league teams rarely trade prospects they think have a chance to be good major leaguers.  After the Dickey for Syndergaard trade, real teams are even more cautious.  I'll keep Cole for two more seasons and hope for the best.  I'm tired of being a farm team for real teams.

keep being an apologist know it all

[Wrasslerfan]

I just don’t understand how anyone can defend the organization right now.  I can pull up lots of prior threads on this very board about how 2017-2018 seasons were the Pirates “window” to be great. We heard they should keep this stock pile of prospects so they can make a run.

Also, the Pirates did a great job managing AJ Burnett? Let’s be real, they got lucky on a retread of a aging ailing pitcher for the 1st time in 20 years. Then refused to give him a fair deal so he spent time in Philly when he could have gotten the Pirates an additional win or two that would have won the division that year.

Oh yeah, speaking of giving away wins early in the year. Let’s discuss how this organization continuously leaves a talent player or two in Indy until mid June to avoid arbitration.  They never bring their 25 best players north in April. They bring the 25 the best fit their budget north. If they didn’t give away a handful of wins with keeping talented players in Indy, they would have probably won at least 1 division title in that 13-15 window. 

Worst professional sports team in America. Worse than the Browns.

thats because crimsons ghost and know it all are big apologists

[Crimson's Ghost]

If we're both big apologists, why are we arguing against each other?