Saltsburg forfeit

[Jimjohn81]

I agree that the teams pre season goals probably were to win conference and d5 or d6. Maybe go undefeated and win a state championship? Who knows. Not sure if they included win the Appalachian bowl. But here they are now. People discussed it on here previously. Come out healthy and gain some valuable experience or get a few key players hurt and curse the meaningless game. Playing tough could give shade some confidence heading into playoffs and prepare them for a possible state playoff game. Or getting a top player hurt could derail hopes for one last d5 championship. We will find out soon enough where the shade decision makers stand.

[BlueYonder]

Saltsburg's football players, when given the opportunity, are 2-0 against the AA schools of the Heritage conference this year.

All five conferences in the District 5/6 area have inequities in enrollment.  Bellefonte (6-2) is 3.8 times larger than BC (private), and  3.1 times the size of PVA (public).  Johnstown (0-8) is 3.0 times larger than McCort (private) and 1.8 times larger than CH (public).  North Star (0-8) is 2.2 times larger than  BV.  Everett (5-3) is 2.35 times larger than Williamsburg.  LV (8-0) is 2.85 times larger than Saltsburg.

Also - note that LV is 15% larger than MC which is the second largest school in the Heritage.  PL (the second smallest school in the Heritage) is 46% larger than Saltsburg.

The facts are, Saltsburg didn't forfeit to LV because of the difference in enrollment, they forfeited to them because of their perception of their chance to beat LV.  And although LV is the largest school in their conference,  the Heritage is no more dis-proportionate than other conferences, and if there is an issue in the Heritage, it's the fact that Saltsburg is so much smaller than everybody else - rather than LV being so much larger than everybody else.

Saltsburg has a nice team.  Their last two wins were 4th quarter comebacks.  Forfeiting because the team is better should not be done.  Ever.

As far as the suggestion that Shade should not play LV - seriously?  The Appalachian Bowl will be a great experience for those kids.  Nobody gave HC a chance against BG last year.  Maybe they should have just said - no thanks, we will pass.  Who knows what will happen. 

[Colonel Mustard]

You're confusing competitive advantage with physical advantage. AAA teams have a competitive advantage over AA teams, but AA teams have enough kids to compete physically. A nearly AAA school playing against some of the smallest schools in the state is just bad. Shade probably has lineman smaller than some of LVs linebackers. That puts a lot of kids at risk physically.

And these extra games are fine for teams not making the playoffs. Doesn't make sense for a team like Shade.

[BlueYonder]

A nearly AAA school playing against some of the smallest schools in the state is just bad.

If it's that bad, then how did Saltsburg beat WS and MC?  How did Shade beat North Star?  Should Shade have forfeited to NS? 

[Aiks19]

Serious question. What is Ligonier to do? Go to LHAC? Then they have an odd number of teams.Go to Mountain? Sure then they could make 2 hour trips to away games. They could get the AA schools from Heritage and ICC and form a league. You would still have long travels and blowouts.Plus , lets not forget the other sports that you have to fill a schedule for. For a school to forfeit a league game because you feel you don’t have a chance. That’s a you problem. Not Ligonier’s.

[Fballrules17]

Blue Yonder, Saltsburg did not forfeit that game because they thought they were going to lose. Look at the 2017 game vs Ligonier, 4 players were injured. Can you imagine Saltsburg's 150lb qb against that front 7. He would have been broken in half. Their season would have been over.



The competitive advantage leads to the physical advantage. Keep an eye on Marion Center. Give that coach a couple of years and he will use that competitive advantage and build a physical advantage. (as he should under the current rules) West Shamokin has a roster of 34 kids, I have heard they are dressing around 27, compared to Saltsburg's 19, not that big of a deal. Ligonier's 49, compared to that week's 16 from Saltsburg. Well, kids would have gotten hurt. In 2017, one of Saltsburg's freshman receivers was boarded, taken to the hospital, and was in a neck brace for 4 weeks. Not to mention the other three starters that were injured.

Finally, if Saltsburg co-ops with Blairsville who will be the next Saltsburg that becomes the conference whipping boy so that Ligonier can have their yearly parade. My bet is PL. Numbers will drop after a few straight losing seasons, and then they will co-op with Penns Manor.

And your comparison between conferences is not relevant. The Single A's in the LHAC are private. The doubles have the numbers 40-50 man rosters that are similar to the AAA's. The West Pac has North Star and a couple of co-op doubles which are not nearly the same.

Finally, I like how you use percentages when comparing. It really lessons the gravity of the situation. But when you use real numbers you see the difference.

[Fballrules17]

This isn't a case of group of good players coming through. Ligonier has won over 86% of their conference games since merging with Laurel Valley in 2010. What have they won 27 straight conference games by mercy rule?

To tell the truth, I feel just as bad for a school like Homer that has been as consistent as you can be over the past decade, with 2 district titles and a runner-up. They've lost 4 straight to Ligonier by Mercy Rule. Forget about Saltsburg, If you think numbers don't matter just look at the LV/ Homer Series.

I don't have a horse in the race, but you are going to have more schools PL/PM, United/ HC, co-op all so Ligonier can have their yearly parade.

[RamFan1]

You’re wrong, Fbrules17.  The group of kids that has come through the past few years has been exceptional, but it’s not just an endless supply of talent.  2 seasons ago, LV’s junior high team went winless. They have a sophomore class of 5 players.  Their JV team has struggled all season.  

People need to get over this “LV is 2 schools” garbage.  Laurel Valley closed 9 years ago.  They were graduating somewhere around 30 kids per graduating class.  1 starter on their team lives in the old Laurel Valley District.  It would be like Harmony closing and sending their kids to Purchase Line or Northern Cambria and me saying they have a competitive advantage...

Also, pretty sure that Berlin has a co-op with Rockwood.  Shade with Shanksville.  Not that it matters, because West Shamokin is AA and so is Marion Center, and both lost to Saltsburg this year.  If the size disparity was the issue, why did the Heritage invite West Shamokin into the conference?!  I may be wrong, but when they came in, they may have been the biggest school in the conference.  Haven’t beaten LV yet.

LV has beaten McCort (twice), Cambria Heights and Dunmore in the postseason over the past 2 years.  All are AA.  They beat Westmont in 2016, who is AAA.  They did it with teams led by athletes Colin Smith, Jackson Daugherty, Aaron Tutino, and special linemen like Jake Neiderhiser and Mike Petrof.  This isn’t a Southern Columbia situation where kids move to Ligonier to play for LV.  This cycle will end.

Credit needs to be given to the coaching staff, too, for being willing to evolve.  Beitel ran the Wing-T his entire career before scrapping it 4 years ago for a current, modern system while everyone else is still running the Power I, Wing T, or the Veer.  That’s when LV’s offense exploded.  But no one else has evolved.  3 yards and a cloud of dust, while Aaron Tutino breaks the all-time State record for touchdown receptions.  And it’s not that other teams don’t have the talent to do it, because several have and do now.  That’s on the coaches of those programs for being stuck in the past and unwilling to learn and change with the game.

It’s also evident that LV does what Roger says, and that’s that their kids live for the weight room. Northern Cambria was bigger than LV this week, but LV was stronger, more explosive, and more athletic.  

It’s also amazing still how LHAC teams like Johnstown and Somerset play down to everyone all season but you never hear about this “competitive advantage” with them.  Both teams are terrible this year but are the biggest schools in that conference, so the logic that bigger schools = better teams is competely void of any truth.  

LV is on a great run.  Give them credit and enjoy the show.  If your team can’t beat them, either get better or wait, they will one day.  Or, just keep showing your complete ignorance and lack of sportsmanship.  

[konjo78]

Pretty sure it was stated somewhere Saltsburg would of only been able to dress 15 players against LV. Thats just not enough at all for a game of football.... people may not like this but thats saltsburg coach should be coach of the year. Imagine what he could do with a roster of 40 plus, instead of under 20

[knowitall]

Both Pitt and the Steelers will take a week off next week.  

High school teams with 15-20 kids will play their ninth game in nine weeks.