Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

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Colonel Mustard
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by Colonel Mustard »

I totally agree about the travel and specialization starting at younger and younger ages, totally ridiculous. I do have to take issue with the attack on 'dad' coaches. Yes there are bad dads that are in it for the wrong reasons. But without dads (and moms) coaching, fund raising, working on fields, organizing rec leagues, etc...there would be no youth sports. And if there were no youth sports, we'd be losing even more kids to video games and phones.
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by Slippery95 »

abpk2903 wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 11:18 am Easy to blame the kids for not wanting to participate in sports, especially the team sports in today's day and age. What people don't want to hear is the problem is actually with the adults. Adult participation is down with quality youth program coaches, quality youth program officials, and so forth. A lot youth coaches are there to make sure their kid and their kids friends get the best opportunity. All it takes is a few bad youth coaches/administrators in your community to chase off dozens of kids over the course of several years.

Its funny how communities that still have GREAT youth program coaches and leaders seem to still have success at the varsity level. Two youth programs that always seemed to be well run are CR wrestling and BA football. Look at the success and participate rate of their varsity programs over the years.
Coincidence? They seemed to always have members of the community step up and coach the youth even when their kids are no longer on the teams.

Way to many youth programs are run by dads and only while their kids are coming through the program. Way too many parents want to kids to "specialize" because it cuts their costs and obligations. Money is a major issue. The affulant families are able to send their kids off to whatever prep school, travel team, and AAU program they wish. The kids then get sucked into this thought that unless it is "travel team" then it doesn't matter. The kids then have no loyalty to the community they grew up in, why should they. The less fortunate families need their kids to pick 1 sport or less due to cost of gear, sign ups, work restraints, etc. Those same less fortunate usually also quickly get looked over because their parents usually are not the ones with the money and time to take on a coaching rule. The team is then assembled with the coach his kids and his assistants kids as the core of the team.

"Travel" is the most ridiculous thing we have every done to youth athletics. The idea that an 8 year old needs to travel out of the area so they can face enough "competition to develop" is beyond insane. Every town now has an 8U, 10U, 12U, 14U, and so on for every sport. Heck I just got an email from the ball league I have spent years coaching in that they need a coach for their new 5U program. Yes, 5U. Half the team still wears pull ups to bed. So instead of kids enjoying the game and falling in love with the game playing their friend from school all summer. They are staying a hotel in Ocean City for a week playing some kid from North Carolina while their parents and coaches convince themselves that this game means something in the scheme of life. Kids burn out, parents burn out, coaches burn out, and officials burn out long before the kid even gets to varsity athletics.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.




Although I comment very little on this message board I read it often.

In the 10 or so years I have been doing this I have to say that this is easily the best post ever! There is not a letter of this post that I disagree with.

Quite frankly, I am happy to know that there is at least one other person out there that finds specialization and travel teams to be detrimental to the athlete amoungst other things!!!!
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sparky
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Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by sparky »

I am in the same boat. Constant reader but very rarely post. But as a dad who has a teenage son who loves baseball and no other sports. I wish he would try other ones but he wants to focus on baseball. I feel it puts him at a disadvantage to only play little league. We have bounced between little league, pony, and travel ball. In our circumstance Pony league did not push or develop him, as the “dad” coach spent most the time working with the players that needed extra work on the fundamentals. Nothing against the Dad coach, he was a great coach and my son loved him. But that season my son didn’t grow in his skills. We are now with a travel ball organization with paid coaches. All coaches have college experience and a number of them played pro baseball.

The coaching is at a much higher level, as well as the level of players on the team. The coaches can focus on advanced techniques because everyone on the team is at that level. Being around the best kids in the area pushes my son to be better.

Also the culture is much different. My son is in middle school, but the goal of his organization is to develop kids to play college baseball. He has had assignments where he was required to research colleges. Their admissions requirements, GPA, SAT scores, etc.

While I understand that little league is valuable. For our situation we feel that travel ball will best prepare our son to play in college. So there are two sides to every coin.


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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by Manfred »

Does anyone else feel this way, that at a certain level, be it LL, PL, travel ball, HS, or ? the kid in question hits the level that he/ she is NOT going to get any better, regardless of who's team he/ she is on, who's coaching, and all they are doing is stroking the parent's ego and fattening the instructors wallets?
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by OutOfTheLoop »

Manfred wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 10:53 am Does anyone else feel this way, that at a certain level, be it LL, PL, travel ball, HS, or ? the kid in question hits the level that he/ she is NOT going to get any better, regardless of who's team he/ she is on, who's coaching, and all they are doing is stroking the parent's ego and fattening the instructors wallets?
I don't have direct experience with this, but I've met a few parents whose retirement plan is to have their kids become highly paid professional athletes. It's like they have a child's mentality too, but I could see how they could get minipulated fairly easily into "investing" loads of money into their kids' futures.

I also wonder what happens when these kids who hyperfocus on specialization and a future scholarship/paycheck and it doesn't happen. Do they feel like they failed? Is it hard to accept? I don't know.
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by abpk2903 »

Colonel Mustard wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 7:03 am I totally agree about the travel and specialization starting at younger and younger ages, totally ridiculous. I do have to take issue with the attack on 'dad' coaches. Yes there are bad dads that are in it for the wrong reasons. But without dads (and moms) coaching, fund raising, working on fields, organizing rec leagues, etc...there would be no youth sports. And if there were no youth sports, we'd be losing even more kids to video games and phones.
That goes back to my exact point. Parents have to step up and coach when most of them shouldn't be coaching. I personally have coached 2 teams in my life after being reached out to because they were going to have to fold the team because they couldn't even get a parent to step up and coach. I will also say the best 3 coaches I had in my life did not play past high school and were not affiliated with any member of the team. The worst 3 coaches I had were dads trying to "run it back one more time" through their kids. I always have several dads on my staff when I coach. Last season I had a few moms on my staff, as well. But as the head coach, I made the lineup and made sure each kid got a fair shake. If you need a coach and parents is the only way to get coaches for your youth program, it is ok. But most youth programs around the country are completely run (admins) and coached by parents who the day their kid moves on, move on as well. I will never talk poorly of a parent stepping up and coaching a team. It is quite the responsibility, time, and financial commitment. I fault the leagues. They should be more diligent in trying first to find coaches outside of parents and then fill the assistant positions with parents if need be.
Manfred wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 10:53 am Does anyone else feel this way, that at a certain level, be it LL, PL, travel ball, HS, or ? the kid in question hits the level that he/ she is NOT going to get any better, regardless of who's team he/ she is on, who's coaching, and all they are doing is stroking the parent's ego and fattening the instructors wallets?
Wait, you're saying my 11 year old doesn't need Major League experience as a prerequisite to be my kid's travel team coach? You are exactly right. People forget that kids really need to learn the basics and they don't need a "swing coach" until they are in college. Some of the drills I see kids doing before they hit puberty is absolutely hilarious. The best way to learn a sport is to actually play it. Instead parents send their kids to a camp 3 states away so they can get instruction from some has been that spent 4 years in the big leagues. I personally am fine with a guy/gal that played a little high school sports and now works an 8-5 and volunteer coaches a team in his evening/weekends. That seems to me like more of the role model I want my kids to be around. Not the dude that is leveraging his couple year baseball career to rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year doing sport camps meanwhile he doesn't you kid from the 10,000 other kids he exploits that same year.
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by Bagman »

One issue that is being overlooked in this conversation is finances . When I played Little League we had one tag day and a sponsorship that covered everything else , equipment and uniforms etc. We where the Cubs and were sponsored by a local bank which had their name on the back of the uniform . We had the good stuff , the blue pinstripes with the sown on Cubs logo. Now every kid in every sport has to pay a entry fee plus sell stuff all year just to be able to play , it gets old . Now corporate greed has taken over and very few businesses are willing to lay out a $1000-$1500 tax write off to help the local kids play .

On to the travel team conversation.

My son and I had many phone calls when he was 13 to join some travels teams which I declined . They were playing all over the east coast and one parent has told me that he spent 25K from the time his boy was 13 until his JR year of high school. There was 4 of my son's friends that was participating. The funny thing is of those boys ,two never played college baseball and two others played D3 . My son ended up a 3 year starter and All Conference his senior year of D3 Baseball . So in my opinion travel ball in the beginning was good and for just the elite guys but now it is for almost anyone who will pay .
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by knowitall »

sparky wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 9:50 am
While I understand that little league is valuable. For our situation we feel that travel ball will best prepare our son to play in college. So there are two sides to every coin.
Your kid is in middle school and you're worried about preparing him to play in college? I would be a little more worried that you're overdoing it now and that by the time college rolls around he'll be sick of baseball.

Playing baseball in college for the most part entails four hour bus trips to play (or given the size of the average D2 or D3 roster, sit and watch) doubleheaders in 34 degree weather in front of 27 fans.

My kid has been playing the same sport for eleven years. My kid graduates next year. I bet my kid will decide not to continue playing that sport in college. I can't imagine my kid wanting to play this sport for two let alone five more years.
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by Manfred »

abpk2903 wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 1:30 pm
Colonel Mustard wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 7:03 am I totally agree about the travel and specialization starting at younger and younger ages, totally ridiculous. I do have to take issue with the attack on 'dad' coaches. Yes there are bad dads that are in it for the wrong reasons. But without dads (and moms) coaching, fund raising, working on fields, organizing rec leagues, etc...there would be no youth sports. And if there were no youth sports, we'd be losing even more kids to video games and phones.
That goes back to my exact point. Parents have to step up and coach when most of them shouldn't be coaching. I personally have coached 2 teams in my life after being reached out to because they were going to have to fold the team because they couldn't even get a parent to step up and coach. I will also say the best 3 coaches I had in my life did not play past high school and were not affiliated with any member of the team. The worst 3 coaches I had were dads trying to "run it back one more time" through their kids. I always have several dads on my staff when I coach. Last season I had a few moms on my staff, as well. But as the head coach, I made the lineup and made sure each kid got a fair shake. If you need a coach and parents is the only way to get coaches for your youth program, it is ok. But most youth programs around the country are completely run (admins) and coached by parents who the day their kid moves on, move on as well. I will never talk poorly of a parent stepping up and coaching a team. It is quite the responsibility, time, and financial commitment. I fault the leagues. They should be more diligent in trying first to find coaches outside of parents and then fill the assistant positions with parents if need be.
Manfred wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 10:53 am Does anyone else feel this way, that at a certain level, be it LL, PL, travel ball, HS, or ? the kid in question hits the level that he/ she is NOT going to get any better, regardless of who's team he/ she is on, who's coaching, and all they are doing is stroking the parent's ego and fattening the instructors wallets?
Wait, you're saying my 11 year old doesn't need Major League experience as a prerequisite to be my kid's travel team coach? You are exactly right. People forget that kids really need to learn the basics and they don't need a "swing coach" until they are in college. Some of the drills I see kids doing before they hit puberty is absolutely hilarious. The best way to learn a sport is to actually play it. Instead parents send their kids to a camp 3 states away so they can get instruction from some has been that spent 4 years in the big leagues. I personally am fine with a guy/gal that played a little high school sports and now works an 8-5 and volunteer coaches a team in his evening/weekends. That seems to me like more of the role model I want my kids to be around. Not the dude that is leveraging his couple year baseball career to rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year doing sport camps meanwhile he doesn't you kid from the 10,000 other kids he exploits that same year.
I'm glad we're able to agree on this, as many times we seem at loggerheads.
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Re: Wrestling disappearing in small schools ?

Post by abpk2903 »

sparky wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 9:50 am I am in the same boat. Constant reader but very rarely post. But as a dad who has a teenage son who loves baseball and no other sports. I wish he would try other ones but he wants to focus on baseball. I feel it puts him at a disadvantage to only play little league. We have bounced between little league, pony, and travel ball. In our circumstance Pony league did not push or develop him, as the “dad” coach spent most the time working with the players that needed extra work on the fundamentals. Nothing against the Dad coach, he was a great coach and my son loved him. But that season my son didn’t grow in his skills. We are now with a travel ball organization with paid coaches. All coaches have college experience and a number of them played pro baseball.

The coaching is at a much higher level, as well as the level of players on the team. The coaches can focus on advanced techniques because everyone on the team is at that level. Being around the best kids in the area pushes my son to be better.

Also the culture is much different. My son is in middle school, but the goal of his organization is to develop kids to play college baseball. He has had assignments where he was required to research colleges. Their admissions requirements, GPA, SAT scores, etc.

While I understand that little league is valuable. For our situation we feel that travel ball will best prepare our son to play in college. So there are two sides to every coin.


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Isn't anything wrong with trying to get the best out of your kid and giving them every single opportunity to succeed. You seem like you have put emphasis on the academic part of his growth, but a lot of parents do not.

I coached a kid a few years ago in "rec" ball and his parents were divorced. The dad made him play "rec" because his grades were very poor and he wanted him to shift focus to his studies. His mom on the weekends she had him would take him all over the country to camps. He would miss days of school to go to Bradenton (one trip in particular that I remember). The dad always mentioned to me that unless he turned his Cs and Ds into As and Bs, he isn't going anywhere with baseball. He was a smart kid but all he and his mom cared about was playing baseball, so his grades suffered. It was quite sad.
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