Quarterfinals
Re: Quarterfinals
Here is how that inning went. Hrbal led off with a single. Leech hit a grounder to the left side and they were able to get the lead runner at second but not able to turn the double play so leech is on first with one out because of a fielders choice. Kastelic then popped out. 2 outs with leech on first because of a fielders choice. Cooper then singled moving leech to third. McMillen hit what should have been the game ending grounder to short but a high throw allowed the crushers to score. Stenger was hit by the pitch to load the bases and Williams hit a soft liner which the right fielder made an incredible catch to win the game. Hope this helps.
Re: Quarterfinals
NO! NO! NO!!!!!! A force out at second base with the batter reaching 1st base is NOT a fielder's choice!!!!! It's a force out. In a fielder's choice, EVERYBODY is safe!!!! Any baserunners and the batter are SAFE!!!! WHY???? Because the fielder chooses NOT to get the batter out, but instead takes a chance to get a previous baserunner out instead. For example, there is a guy on first base and the batter at the plate bunts back to the pitcher. Instead of the pitcher throwing the batter out at first, he tries to get the lead runner at second. The guy who was heading to second got a nice jump on the pitch and makes it to second BEFORE the throw from the pitcher gets there. The batter, of course, is safe at first. Now you have 2 guys on. Because the pitcher CHOSE to throw to get the lead runner at second, it was the FIELDER'S CHOICE that got the batter safe at first. C'mon guys. Let's try again. In every fielder's choice, you end up with either at least 2 guys on base, or a run scoring. In the McCort game, there were 2 out, and no run scored, and only a guy on first. But the article said the were "2 outs and a guy on first via a fielder's choice" and no run scored. Obviously there was NO fielder's choice in the final inning of the McCort game. But it could happen. HOW????? How can you have two outs, no run in, nobody on third or second base, and a guy standing on first VIA A FIELDER'S CHOICE?
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lhacbigfan
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 1718
- Joined: April 27th, 2006, 8:16 pm
Re: Quarterfinals
Moldo you are making yourself look like an idiot... Everyone knows what a fielder's choice is, except you apparently. Here it is straight from the rule book since you seem to not know baseball.
Fielder's choice is defined in MLB Rule 2, "Definitions", as "the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner." FC is recorded for the batter-runner if he reaches first base safely regardless of whether the attempt to put out the other runner(s) is successful. If the other runner is successfully put out for the third out, FC is recorded for the batter-runner regardless of whether he had already reached first base (commonly called grounding into a force play).
Fielder's choice is defined in MLB Rule 2, "Definitions", as "the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner." FC is recorded for the batter-runner if he reaches first base safely regardless of whether the attempt to put out the other runner(s) is successful. If the other runner is successfully put out for the third out, FC is recorded for the batter-runner regardless of whether he had already reached first base (commonly called grounding into a force play).
Re: Quarterfinals
The scenario which I earlier explained matches the definition which lhacbigfan has provided which shows rhe tribune was actually correct on this one
Re: Quarterfinals
....Little Billy comes home from his pony league game earlier that evening, and his dad asks him how he did. Now what sounds better: 1) I hit into 2 force outs at second base or 2) I got on twice with a fielder's choice. Unbelieveable!!!! We are, nowadays, letting terminology get in the way of baseball. In my day, a fielder's choice was getting on base when a fielder takes your batted ball and UNSUCCESSFULLY makes a play on another baserunner while you end up on 1st base. NO out was recorded because of your hit. That, my friends, used to be a fielder's choice. Of course by today's standards, EVERY FORCE OUT where the batter gets to first , IS NOW CALLED A FIELDER'S CHOICE. And, when a batter hits the ball into the outfield, and then takes second base when the throw comes into the plate to get another runner, his moving up a base is now called a FIELDER'S CHOICE TOO!!!!! What gives? The phrases of "grounding into a force out" and taking a base "on the throw" are now FIELDER'S CHOICES???? People have to remember, changing a phrase doesn't change the meaning of something. A PRE-OWNED CAR is still a used car. A SERVER is still a waiter. To many of us, getting on base because of a force out is NOT considered a fielder's choice. Sure the fielder made a choice of what to do with the ball when he picked it up, but it did not let the batter get to first on a "FIELDER'S CHOICE".
Re: Quarterfinals
well, in your day El-Moldo you still would have been wrong....I'm 51.....I've been playing ball, reading the rule book, and keeping a scorebook for most of those years (as the son of a sports writer is likely to do).....a fielder's choice has always been when a fielder made the choice to go for the play at another base, whether an out was recorded or not.....the runner is safe at first because of the fielder's choice.....there is no official ruling for a force out, other than an out being recorded...
I actually enjoy reading your opinions most of the time, but I had hoped that you would either admit your mistake or remain quiet....in this case, you are wrong...and it's not a change in today's must-play, building self-esteem world....those are the rules and the proper way to score it....
By the way, the batter is charged an at-bat, but does not get a hit...so it is recorded as an 0-1.....
GIAFO...is that how you write it in your scorebook? I go FC, then cut the other runner down utilizing the fielder making the throw and the fielder touching the bag for the force or applying the tag for the out....
Next?
I actually enjoy reading your opinions most of the time, but I had hoped that you would either admit your mistake or remain quiet....in this case, you are wrong...and it's not a change in today's must-play, building self-esteem world....those are the rules and the proper way to score it....
By the way, the batter is charged an at-bat, but does not get a hit...so it is recorded as an 0-1.....
GIAFO...is that how you write it in your scorebook? I go FC, then cut the other runner down utilizing the fielder making the throw and the fielder touching the bag for the force or applying the tag for the out....
Next?
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bleacherbum
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 576
- Joined: November 16th, 2010, 5:36 pm
Re: Quarterfinals
WOW are we really having to conversation. A fielders choice is exactly what it says. The fielder could throw the batter out but CHOICES to throw another base runner out.The batter stats shows an at bat but not a hit towards his average
Re: Quarterfinals
In my day, the collective term "FIELDER'S CHOICE" meant exactly what I said it did. You guys are using the phrase fielder's choice as TWO WORDS. Our "Fielder's Choice" was ONE COLLECTIVE WORD. There was a difference then. Again, you guys are saying that EVERY FORCE OUT that gets the batter to first base is a Fielder's choice. I don't think so. He reached 1st base on a force out, not a fielder's choice. Like who wouldn't get the lead runner heading for second from first after a batter hits a grounder to the second baseman. That's not a choice, it's second nature 99% of the time. But if a second baseman gets a grounder and throws to third base to get a guy going from second to third in a NO FORCE OUT SITUATION, now THAT'S a fielder's choice. Now explain book rule double and ground rule double. They are COMPLETELY different terms, each meaning something different. They are often used to mean the same thing, but they are different.
Re: Quarterfinals
Fielder's choice
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In baseball, fielder's choice (abbreviated FC) is a term used to refer to a variety of plays involving an offensive player reaching a base due to the defense's attempt to put out another baserunner, or the defensive team's indifference to his advance. Fielder's choice is not called by the umpires on the field of play; rather, it is recorded by the official scorer to account for the offensive player's advance without crediting him with an offensive statistic such as a hit or stolen base.
Though there are several definitions of fielder's choice, the most common (and the only one commonly referred to as FC) involves a fielder fielding a fair ball and, though he has a clear opportunity to throw out the batter-runner at first base in the official scorer's judgment, chooses to try to put out another baserunner, thereby allowing the batter-runner to safely reach first base. Other plays that fall under the definition of FC are usually referred to using other terms such as defensive indifference or on the throw.
Contents
[hide]
1 Definition
1.1 Impact on statistics
2 Examples of fielder's choice situations
3 External links
[edit] Definition
Fielder's choice is defined in MLB Rule 2, "Definitions", as "the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner." FC is recorded for the batter-runner if he reaches first base safely regardless of whether the attempt to put out the other runner(s) is successful. If the other runner is successfully put out for the third out, FC is recorded for the batter-runner regardless of whether he had already reached first base (commonly called grounding into a force play).
Rule 2 also defines FC as any of the following circumstances:
When a batter accomplishes a hit but is able to safely reach an extra base because of the defense's attempt to put out another baserunner (e.g., one running towards home plate). Often called on the throw.
When a runner already on base safely reaches another base due to a fielder's attempt to put out another runner, unless his advance can be categorized as a stolen base. Also referred to as on the throw.
An error committed by the defensive team on any of the above plays would require the official scorer to make a judgment call as to whether an error or FC should be recorded.
[edit] Impact on statistics
1) A batter who reaches first base safely as the result of a fielder's choice is not credited with a hit or a time on base; however, his turn at the plate is recorded as an at bat and plate appearance. Therefore, a player's batting average and on-base percentage decreases as a result of reaching first base via fielder's choice. This negative effect on the batter's statistics is justified by the fact that, although he has reached base safely, his team's position has worsened; it has incurred an out without advancing or scoring a runner.
A batter who reaches first base safely but advances on the same play as the result of fielder's choice is credited with a hit for the number of bases he would have reached safely with no other runners on base, and is said to have taken the additional base(s) on the throw.
A baserunner who makes an undefended steal is not credited with a stolen base, but his advance is accounted for as defensive indifference.
[edit] Examples of fielder's choice situations
See also: On the throw
With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball directly to the shortstop. Although he could easily throw the batter-runner out at first base, the shortstop chooses to throw to the second baseman who is covering second base, in an attempt to force out the runner advancing from first. Meanwhile, the batter-runner reaches first base safely.
This play is commonly referred to as "grounding into a force out". Fielder's choice is recorded for the batter-runner (6-4 or 6-4-3, depending on whether an attempt was made to put him out), and he is not credited with a hit.
A 6-4 FC would be recorded if the preceding runner is put out for the third out, regardless of where the batter-runner is on the basepaths when this occurs.
With a runner on second base, the batter sends a base hit to the outfield. The outfielder, playing shallow in anticipation of such a hit, throws to home plate in an attempt to put out the runner trying to score. The batter-runner may decide to advance to second base since he can see that there will not be a play there. This play is scored as a single for the batter-runner regardless of the outcome of the attempt to put out the runner trying to score. The term on the throw is often used to describe the outcome of any plays in this situation.
If the batter-runner safely reaches second base regardless of the outcome at home plate, his single still stands, but he is said to have taken second on the throw, or on fielder's choice.
If the batter-runner is thrown out at second base regardless of the outcome at home plate, he is still credited with a single, since the put out was a consequence of his attempt to take second on the throw.
If the runner attempting to score is put out, he is said to be out at home plate on the throw. If he is put out for the third out, no advance on the throw is recorded for the batter-runner, and the batter-runner is left on base since he is credited with a single.
With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. However, the throw is not in time, and both runners are safe. Assuming the official scorer agrees the shortstop could not have thrown the batter-runner out at first with ordinary effort, this play will be scored as a base hit and not FC.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In baseball, fielder's choice (abbreviated FC) is a term used to refer to a variety of plays involving an offensive player reaching a base due to the defense's attempt to put out another baserunner, or the defensive team's indifference to his advance. Fielder's choice is not called by the umpires on the field of play; rather, it is recorded by the official scorer to account for the offensive player's advance without crediting him with an offensive statistic such as a hit or stolen base.
Though there are several definitions of fielder's choice, the most common (and the only one commonly referred to as FC) involves a fielder fielding a fair ball and, though he has a clear opportunity to throw out the batter-runner at first base in the official scorer's judgment, chooses to try to put out another baserunner, thereby allowing the batter-runner to safely reach first base. Other plays that fall under the definition of FC are usually referred to using other terms such as defensive indifference or on the throw.
Contents
[hide]
1 Definition
1.1 Impact on statistics
2 Examples of fielder's choice situations
3 External links
[edit] Definition
Fielder's choice is defined in MLB Rule 2, "Definitions", as "the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner." FC is recorded for the batter-runner if he reaches first base safely regardless of whether the attempt to put out the other runner(s) is successful. If the other runner is successfully put out for the third out, FC is recorded for the batter-runner regardless of whether he had already reached first base (commonly called grounding into a force play).
Rule 2 also defines FC as any of the following circumstances:
When a batter accomplishes a hit but is able to safely reach an extra base because of the defense's attempt to put out another baserunner (e.g., one running towards home plate). Often called on the throw.
When a runner already on base safely reaches another base due to a fielder's attempt to put out another runner, unless his advance can be categorized as a stolen base. Also referred to as on the throw.
An error committed by the defensive team on any of the above plays would require the official scorer to make a judgment call as to whether an error or FC should be recorded.
[edit] Impact on statistics
1) A batter who reaches first base safely as the result of a fielder's choice is not credited with a hit or a time on base; however, his turn at the plate is recorded as an at bat and plate appearance. Therefore, a player's batting average and on-base percentage decreases as a result of reaching first base via fielder's choice. This negative effect on the batter's statistics is justified by the fact that, although he has reached base safely, his team's position has worsened; it has incurred an out without advancing or scoring a runner.
A batter who reaches first base safely but advances on the same play as the result of fielder's choice is credited with a hit for the number of bases he would have reached safely with no other runners on base, and is said to have taken the additional base(s) on the throw.
A baserunner who makes an undefended steal is not credited with a stolen base, but his advance is accounted for as defensive indifference.
[edit] Examples of fielder's choice situations
See also: On the throw
With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball directly to the shortstop. Although he could easily throw the batter-runner out at first base, the shortstop chooses to throw to the second baseman who is covering second base, in an attempt to force out the runner advancing from first. Meanwhile, the batter-runner reaches first base safely.
This play is commonly referred to as "grounding into a force out". Fielder's choice is recorded for the batter-runner (6-4 or 6-4-3, depending on whether an attempt was made to put him out), and he is not credited with a hit.
A 6-4 FC would be recorded if the preceding runner is put out for the third out, regardless of where the batter-runner is on the basepaths when this occurs.
With a runner on second base, the batter sends a base hit to the outfield. The outfielder, playing shallow in anticipation of such a hit, throws to home plate in an attempt to put out the runner trying to score. The batter-runner may decide to advance to second base since he can see that there will not be a play there. This play is scored as a single for the batter-runner regardless of the outcome of the attempt to put out the runner trying to score. The term on the throw is often used to describe the outcome of any plays in this situation.
If the batter-runner safely reaches second base regardless of the outcome at home plate, his single still stands, but he is said to have taken second on the throw, or on fielder's choice.
If the batter-runner is thrown out at second base regardless of the outcome at home plate, he is still credited with a single, since the put out was a consequence of his attempt to take second on the throw.
If the runner attempting to score is put out, he is said to be out at home plate on the throw. If he is put out for the third out, no advance on the throw is recorded for the batter-runner, and the batter-runner is left on base since he is credited with a single.
With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. However, the throw is not in time, and both runners are safe. Assuming the official scorer agrees the shortstop could not have thrown the batter-runner out at first with ordinary effort, this play will be scored as a base hit and not FC.
Re: Quarterfinals
And, for full disclosure, I actually found a site that scorekeeps using FO as an option, not FC.....I've never seen a scorer do it that way before....I'm thinking El-Moldo was responsible for the site I googled.....