The Public's vs The Private's.....

[upnorth]

I have always felt transfers should be ineligible for varsity play for 1 year unless a family physically moves. This would apply to all They should be allow to practice and play JV. This rule should also be in place for districts like the City of Pittsburgh were students have multiple choices of schools to attend. In Pittsburgh and such districts the choice of school must be made before day 1 of the students freshman year. I would also like to see this rule extend to those who transfer to a private school and didn't attend an elementary in that private schools system. This would be really dampen athletic transfers. For the Bishops and St. Joe's this would mean students that didn't attend a catholic elem would be ineligible for varsity play as a freshman. If the student transferred from a public school as a freshman and can still play a JV or Freshman schedule this rule would only effect the likes of the Schilling's, Kephart's and certain lift scholarship students and have very little effect on students who transferred for education, religion or any other non-athletic reasons.

An interesting idea for sure, but I think this is a much deeper issue than we all care to admit. For example, what would the rule be for students who attended a Catholic elementary school (e.g. St. Benedicts) who chose to go to Richland High School? Shouldn't they also be ineligible for varsity play by that logic?

What recourse would families have for just plain escaping from a bad situation (non-athletic) in the public school system? Why should the student be penalized with a lost of academic eligibility? For example, can you really fault a parent for taking a kid out of a school like Johnstown High if they fell into the wrong crowd and sent him/her to McCort instead?

[El-Moldo]

I have absolutely NO trouble with any student transferring right after 8th grade. This establishes where the parents hope their children will be for the next 4 years. There is a significant tuition difference per year, for example, between St. Andrew's and Bishop McCort. Many parent's can't make that jump for financial reasons so they go on to public schools. My argument is with student athletes showing up at new schools LATE in their athletic careers. This bugs me to NO end. The problem is that, schools RECEIVING the transfer are reluctant to say NO to kids that are CLEARLY transferring for athletic reasons. A good student athlete showing up at a new school JUST for his senior year??? Doesn't that send up a red flag???? Where's the guts to say NO?

[upnorth]

I have absolutely NO trouble with any student transferring right after 8th grade. This establishes where the parents hope their children will be for the next 4 years. There is a significant tuition difference per year, for example, between St. Andrew's and Bishop McCort. Many parent's can't make that jump for financial reasons so they go on to public schools. My argument is with student athletes showing up at new schools LATE in their athletic careers. This bugs me to NO end. The problem is that, schools RECEIVING the transfer are reluctant to say NO to kids that are CLEARLY transferring for athletic reasons. A good student athlete showing up at a new school JUST for his senior year??? Doesn't that send up a red flag???? Where's the guts to say NO?

Absolutely it is a red flag for a gifted athlete to enroll in another school for just his/her senior year, but the issue is the receiving school cannot clearly determine whether it is for an "athletic purpose". Sure, they may suspect it, but they cannot prove it. If the parents are claiming it is for academic purposes or to escape a bad situation, how is the receiving school (public or private) supposed to refute it?

I think we are all smart enough to know that the people who physically work in these schools are not recruiting anyone and I do believe that 99% of coaches are smart enough not to recruit. Who is doing it then? From my experience, it has almost always been either kids recruiting other kids or parents recruiting other parents. We have met the enemy and he is us.

If you want to see true recruiting, talk to the dstrict-level PIAA folks down in D1, D12 and to a lesser extent southern D11. The outright recruiting (by mostly AAU coaches) is outright flagrant in basketball.

[El-Moldo]

Yes, but if the AD's and principals at so called "Christian schools" (where the atmosphere is morally straight compared to public schools) SUSPECT it is for athletic reasons, shouldn't they stand up for what's right???? Don't they have the moral courage to say NO? Or does money talk? Do they need that extra $5,500?? As a private school, they can deny admittance to anyone they want. It's private, right? Parent's can't FORCE their way into a private school. Just say no.

[guru1]

I have absolutely NO trouble with any student transferring right after 8th grade. This establishes where the parents hope their children will be for the next 4 years. There is a significant tuition difference per year, for example, between St. Andrew's and Bishop McCort. Many parent's can't make that jump for financial reasons so they go on to public schools. My argument is with student athletes showing up at new schools LATE in their athletic careers. This bugs me to NO end. The problem is that, schools RECEIVING the transfer are reluctant to say NO to kids that are CLEARLY transferring for athletic reasons. A good student athlete showing up at a new school JUST for his senior year??? Doesn't that send up a red flag???? Where's the guts to say NO?

Absolutely it is a red flag for a gifted athlete to enroll in another school for just his/her senior year, but the issue is the receiving school cannot clearly determine whether it is for an "athletic purpose". Sure, they may suspect it, but they cannot prove it. If the parents are claiming it is for academic purposes or to escape a bad situation, how is the receiving school (public or private) supposed to refute it?

I think we are all smart enough to know that the people who physically work in these schools are not recruiting anyone and I do believe that 99% of coaches are smart enough not to recruit. Who is doing it then? From my experience, it has almost always been either kids recruiting other kids or parents recruiting other parents. We have met the enemy and he is us.

If you want to see true recruiting, talk to the dstrict-level PIAA folks down in D1, D12 and to a lesser extent southern D11. The outright recruiting (by mostly AAU coaches) is outright flagrant in basketball.

I think you hit the nail right on the head here......

[Blueandwhitefan]

I have absolutely NO trouble with any student transferring right after 8th grade. This establishes where the parents hope their children will be for the next 4 years. There is a significant tuition difference per year, for example, between St. Andrew's and Bishop McCort. Many parent's can't make that jump for financial reasons so they go on to public schools. My argument is with student athletes showing up at new schools LATE in their athletic careers. This bugs me to NO end. The problem is that, schools RECEIVING the transfer are reluctant to say NO to kids that are CLEARLY transferring for athletic reasons. A good student athlete showing up at a new school JUST for his senior year??? Doesn't that send up a red flag???? Where's the guts to say NO?

Absolutely it is a red flag for a gifted athlete to enroll in another school for just his/her senior year, but the issue is the receiving school cannot clearly determine whether it is for an "athletic purpose". Sure, they may suspect it, but they cannot prove it. If the parents are claiming it is for academic purposes or to escape a bad situation, how is the receiving school (public or private) supposed to refute it?

I think we are all smart enough to know that the people who physically work in these schools are not recruiting anyone and I do believe that 99% of coaches are smart enough not to recruit. Who is doing it then? From my experience, it has almost always been either kids recruiting other kids or parents recruiting other parents. We have met the enemy and he is us.

If you want to see true recruiting, talk to the dstrict-level PIAA folks down in D1, D12 and to a lesser extent southern D11. The outright recruiting (by mostly AAU coaches) is outright flagrant in basketball.

Upnorth
The ones that I know were recruited were recruited by "Boosters". My question with them was. Where is the scholarship money coming from? They didn't know.

[Manfred]

See no evil. Don't ask, don't tell. We're accepting them to our "Christian" school, so therefore, it's a charitable, "Christian" thing to do. What could -POSSIBLY- be wrong with that.

[WPIAL~Titan]

Here is a very good read with regard to private schools recruiting student/athletes in PA...Sift through the legalese and it's pretty interesting.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/20041271 ... d922_11198


Incidentally, the recruited student/athlete in question "tipped off" the WPIAL/PIAA to her recruiting in her athlete of the week interview (link below). I recall reading this when it was printed (now close to 10 years ago), laughing, and saying to a good friend, "Uh Oh!!!!!!" Within days, this coach was suspended by the WPIAL and as you read above, filed unsuccessful appeals to the PIAA and the PA court system.

http://www.post-gazette.com/high-school ... 0402260064

Gotta love this quote from the student athlete:

GOING NORTH: Austin lives in Penn Hills and attended St. Bartholomew Grade School. Her sister, Monica Williams, attended Oakland Catholic but did not play basketball. Her brother, Damian McCoy, attends Central Catholic.

"Coach [Rottmann] came to a couple of my games at St. Bart's," Austin said. "She talked to me afterward and I just kind of liked the whole deal. I just thought North would be better for me even though my sister graduated from Oakland Catholic."

[youngbuck]

so should the Hipp kid from McCort been allowed to transfer? how long should he have sat for?

[upnorth]

Yes, but if the AD's and principals at so called "Christian schools" (where the atmosphere is morally straight compared to public schools) SUSPECT it is for athletic reasons, shouldn't they stand up for what's right???? Don't they have the moral courage to say NO? Or does money talk? Do they need that extra $5,500?? As a private school, they can deny admittance to anyone they want. It's private, right? Parent's can't FORCE their way into a private school. Just say no.

It may sound like a cop out, but policies and procedures are based on and applied to facts that we know and not to things we may suspect. Any school, public or private, has to apply the same standard to each and every case.

If you start denying eligibility just because you suspect something, you quickly head down a very slippery slope. Let's use a recent example with some fiction mixed in to illustrate my point. Under your standard, should Berlin have made the Cahill boys sit for a year after their transfer? I think we all agree that they should be eligible. But what if Berlin received a tip that the family moved because they strongly preferred the wrestling program at Berlin as opposed to CT? You can't prove it, but you suspect something is up. I just can't see how we can reasonably expect school's to deny admittance and/or eligibility based on suspicions and not facts.