Is PA deer herd management working?

[LionPride]

Here's a post I made in hunting forum I belong to. Thought I'd put it here too to get your take.

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2 years ago, the Pennsylvania Game Commission implemented two controversial herd management policies.

The first was antler restriction. Most wildlife management units had a 3 points or more on one side restriction, some had a 4 points or more.

The other policy was to thin the doe herd. More doe allocations and a combined season with buck for a higher kill rate.

I was a strong proponent of both, knowing that most bucks were 1.5 year old bucks that were being shot before maturity, and seemingly a very unbalanced doe to buck ratio. I still back the antler restriction.

The other I'm starting to question. I know an unbalanced herd can be harmful, but the deer just aren't there anymore. It's not just me saying this. Every archery hunter I've talked to has said the same thing. I used to see deer all the time, and this year I was lucky to spot one or two while hunting. I did manage to take a doe the first day, but after that, I saw very few. I had another doe tag but passed on the couple of times I did have a doe in range. I only saw one buck the ENTIRE season. He was legal (probably a 2.5 year old), but he got no closer than 80 yards.

It was a very frustrating archery year in PA. I'm used to seeing 6 or 7 decent bucks the whole archery season. I've had an 11 year run of getting a buck (rifle & archery), but this year doesn't look good. Archery season is over, and it's difficult to count points when a million other hunters are pushing the deer.

Last winter was very hard on the deer herd. I saw lots during the February/March months when there was 30 inches of snow, but I believe they just herded up in my area. Instead of cutting back on doe allocations because of this, they were increased.

Any thoughts?

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The above was posted right after archery season. During the days I hunted in rifle season, I saw the fewest deer I have ever seen in 20 years of hunting. I'm passing on every doe I see because I simply can't justify shooting a doe when I'm seeing so few deer.

I think it's high time the PA Game commission end this doe slaughter, regardless what the auto insurance companies want. It's not going to matter how much $$ the insurance companies funnel into the PGC when hunters stop buying licenses.

It's up to hunters now to start being conservationists. If you're not seeing the deer you normally see, think twice before shooting that doe. If you're really serious about it, don't buy that doe license next year.

I believe in doe management practices to balance the herd, but I don't believe in slaughtering the does, which is what is happening.

[CRLionDawg]

They are starting to practice deer management here in MI. Slow process. Where they have been working together for 5 years or more the results speak for themselves.

[gumboots]

The three point rule is definately working i saw a lot of mature buck especially during archery season, and the doe slaughter is to realive the deer's habitat. On wednesday they said in the paper that they understand that numbers are low but this is nessecary to let natural food and shleter recover from over browsing in the past 4-5 years. They also said with lower numbers doe will recieve enough nutrients to birth 3 or 4 fawns per year and there will be a lower winter mortality rate. Until i read the paper this doe slaughter seemed jsut that to me too but after i read that it makes sense. Evenrything will make a full cycle.

[CRplayer]

i think the 3 point rule is helping bucks get more mature but in my 6 years of hunting this is the worst year as far as seeing deer. I saw 6 deer this year. a 6 point an 8 point and 4 does. Last year i saw around twenty and more the year before, i also heard alot of other people say that they're hunting spots aren't as good as usual, anyone else not have such a good year as usual??

[LionPride]

[quote="gumboots";p="76181"]The three point rule is definately working i saw a lot of mature buck especially during archery season, and the doe slaughter is to realive the deer's habitat. On wednesday they said in the paper that they understand that numbers are low but this is nessecary to let natural food and shleter recover from over browsing in the past 4-5 years. They also said with lower numbers doe will recieve enough nutrients to birth 3 or 4 fawns per year and there will be a lower winter mortality rate. Until i read the paper this doe slaughter seemed jsut that to me too but after i read that it makes sense. Evenrything will make a full cycle.[/quote]

You're buying into the PGC propoganda, hook, line and sinker.

The winter was hard on the deer, no doubt, but how many carcasses did you find in the spring? I didn't find any. If there was too little browse, I would expect to find some bones from dead deer in the spring. That wasn't the case. I'm not an expert on the proper amount of browse, but it sure doesn't appear to me that the woods are thinning out.

3 or 4 fawns per year? Yeah, in rare cases. Very rare. That doesn't happen with tame deer where the food provided is much better than they get in the wild. Think about it.

[Arucard]

Mm... I didn't see anything this year when I went out. Well, I saw a doe, but there are just so few deer here this year. Pennsylvania seems really bad on deer this year... Yeah, that sounded like I was repeating myself.

[gumboots]

[quote="LionPride";p="76187"][quote="gumboots";p="76181"]The three point rule is definately working i saw a lot of mature buck especially during archery season, and the doe slaughter is to realive the deer's habitat. On wednesday they said in the paper that they understand that numbers are low but this is nessecary to let natural food and shleter recover from over browsing in the past 4-5 years. They also said with lower numbers doe will recieve enough nutrients to birth 3 or 4 fawns per year and there will be a lower winter mortality rate. Until i read the paper this doe slaughter seemed jsut that to me too but after i read that it makes sense. Evenrything will make a full cycle.[/quote]

You're buying into the PGC propoganda, hook, line and sinker.

.[/quote]Everything the PGC does is driven by the greed of some desk workers that rarely step foot into our hunting grounds. in understand their main goal is to get as many paople as possible to buy as many liscenses as possible but the whole biology thing makes sense. doe are extremely capable of producing 3and 4 fawns per year. up until 4 or five years ago i would see moms with at least three fawns before hunting season would start.
I think no matter what the reason of what your veiw is on how well this is working we all agree that the " management initiative" has to end or there will be no herd left

[gumboots]

Last week there was a meating in dubois discussing PA's deer management and there were three ideas proposed.

1. have smaller deer management units and dramactically reduce number of tags issued

2. completely eliminate doe season next year.

3. go back to the old way of doe season 3 days of doe only after buck season is over

[portagefootball]

i agree with the antler restrictions but something has to be done about the does

[mjunkin]

2 articles from the Public Opinion (my local newspaper):

Hunters claim PA herd drops
Some hunters blame coyotes