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Some years back I worked at a company that offered their employees 5 paid sick days / yr. If you didn't use them, or a part of them, you got a little "incentive' bonus at the end of the year. Nice little perk. Most didn't use them all, and got the few buck bonus. What ruined it for the others, was when a couple people would invariably miss work the first day or 2 of buck season, trout season, etc., because they were supposedly "sick", then they would return to work and brag about the trophy deer or fish. Benefit done away with. People ALWAYS find ways to CHEAT whatever system they are involved with. Give the people the same system as Congress has and watch the difference in lives.

El-Moldo wrote:Many of the worker's who now are getting health benefits from their employers, are going to see those employers opt out of private insurance for their employees, and give them the public option to save money. What's funny is, the workers think that the money saved by the employers will somehow end up with the workers in the form of wage increases or other benefits. Ain'ta gonna happen. Any money that the employers save WILL BE THEIRS. We'll see then what the workers think of their new health care benefits as compared to those in the past.

Employers covered health insurance has been steadily falling for years because the costs are so high. Even those that still offer health insurance do so with more and more employer contributions. As premiums continue to rise with double digit increases it is only going to get worse. Even if nothing is done by the government the system is going to completely unaffordable to the large majority of workers in 10 years, if not sooner.

Don't you think that if private insurance companies start losing customers to the government's pubic option their prices are going to come down as well? Do you think they will just give up? I thought competition was supposed to be a good thing.

I still believe the only viable option in the future is going to be single payer. I wish the democrats would have pursued this option while they had the chance.

I'll say it again no tort reform no cost control. Too many lawyers on both sides to have serious solution to the problem. A single payer system will lead to RATIONED health care. Better start saving up now for that hip replacement to pay for with cash in Costa Rica or wait 10 years in America.

once a runner wrote:

El-Moldo wrote:Many of the worker's who now are getting health benefits from their employers, are going to see those employers opt out of private insurance for their employees, and give them the public option to save money. What's funny is, the workers think that the money saved by the employers will somehow end up with the workers in the form of wage increases or other benefits. Ain'ta gonna happen. Any money that the employers save WILL BE THEIRS. We'll see then what the workers think of their new health care benefits as compared to those in the past.

Employers covered health insurance has been steadily falling for years because the costs are so high. Even those that still offer health insurance do so with more and more employer contributions. As premiums continue to rise with double digit increases it is only going to get worse. Even if nothing is done by the government the system is going to completely unaffordable to the large majority of workers in 10 years, if not sooner.

Don't you think that if private insurance companies start losing customers to the government's pubic option their prices are going to come down as well? Do you think they will just give up? I thought competition was supposed to be a good thing.

I still believe the only viable option in the future is going to be single payer. I wish the democrats would have pursued this option while they had the chance.

Uh huh, talk to me when someone you know or even yourself has to wait months or be denied treatment. I know enough doctors who are going to quit practicing if this bill passes.

You just don't get it, its not about health care, its about control.

How about Barry's promise to have the most transparent administration in history and end the corruption in Congress? What happened last night was one of the most despicable votes in the history of Congress. Some Democrat Senators will pay the price in 2010 and 2012. How about the provision to Louisiana for $300 million to get the vote of Sen. Landrieu. Unbelievable.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 72_pf.html

What does $300 million to La have to do with healthcare anyway? Flat out Bribery! Unconscionable!

Goodwill wrote: Uh huh, talk to me when someone you know or even yourself has to wait months or be denied treatment. I know enough doctors who are going to quit practicing if this bill passes.

You just don't get it, its not about health care, its about control.

I'll talk to you right now about people I know who have been denied coverage. I knew a guy who couldn't afford health care and got cancer. Do you know how they treated him? With pills. No chemo. No radiation. He was dead in 3 months. I know a woman who was prescribed medication by her doctor for her illness. The insurance company said she could not this med because they were only for cancer patients. Never mind that because of her condition this was the best medication for her. Her physician tried to intervene, but the insurance company would not budge on their policy.

Perhaps instead of scaring everyone about rationing we should try to do something about the number of doctors and nurses we have. How about more scholarships or loan forgiveness for those who are qualified to be doctors but cannot afford it? I agree that tort reform is a start, but that is not going to stop runaway premium increases. It may bring them down a little in the short term, but it's not a long term solution. Why is tort reform now an issue for the right? It wasn't a problem 4 years ago when they could have actually done something about it?

You know what Goodwill, you're right when you say it's about control. Where we differ is that we are now being controlled by corporate America because they are paying the politicians far more than we are. They'll give us what we need as long as legislation doesn't interfere with their corporate profits.

By the way, how many doctors do you know?

If you're going to bring another 30 million or more people into health coverage, where do you think you are going to get the doctors to take care of these new customers.

We are going to "outsource" our best physicians off-shore to Costa Rica so they can take care of the "rich and famous" and the rest of us "middle class" will be stuck with "gov't docs". Who is going to want to go to Med school with Barry, Harry, and Nancy limiting your pay?

OAR, no comment on the 21st century $300 million Louisiana Purchase? Is that Hope and Change we can believe in? I thought Barry was supposed to change the culture in DC? Or was is just campaign bull sh!t?

OAR, what is your opinion on the abortion tax in the Senate bill? Our spineless senator who is supposed to be pro-life totally abandoned that position in favor of the Democrat party. Can you say Bob Casey Jr. one term wonder?
His dad was a democrat that was respected but his son is a chucklehead.

Moldo, if you had read my previous post I talked about getting more doctors and nurses. Spend any time in a hospital today and you will find that nursing staffs are terribly understaffed. Whether they are understaffed because hospitals are trying to cut corners or there are not enough qualified nurses out there I don't know. I do believe there needs to be more scholarships and loan forgiveness for persons qualified to go into the medical profession.

Southpaw, I am not enamored with Obama's job performance so far. Politics in and of itself is nothing more than a game of bribery. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. At this point if the democrats pass health care legislation it's going to be a very weak bill. Rather than playing the game of politics by paying off constituents I think they should include the public option in their bill and let the republicans and wimpy democrats vote it down. Take it to the polls in 2010 and let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps it is just better to let the current system continue on the path of double digit increases. In 10 years far less people will have decent health care.

As far abortion goes, I'm somewhat torn on the issue. I do not believe abortions are right, but on the other hand they are the law of the land. I'm anti-smoking as well, but does that mean I have the right to dictate that anyone who contracts cancer due to smoking is not entitled to health care? Where do we draw the line between ones own moral compass and the laws of our country? After all, even the RNC had health care insurance that included abortions from 1991 until just a few weeks ago. I believe it was Politico that pointed out that tidbit of hypocrisy.

So how many new medical schools are we gonna build?? And nursing schools???? And are we going to relax the qualifications to admit more kids???? So we're actually going to water down the doctor pool so more can get in once all these schools are built. That makes sense. We're gonna have a shortage of medical personel, and the new ones we're gonna get are not nearly as qualified as the one's we presently have. That's good. Hey, maybe all these new doctors and nurses will help with the nation's unemployment rate. Two birds with one stone.