Penns Manor
Re: Penns Manor
zone,
I haven't been following the Heritage debacle as closely as you have-- do you know who the schools were that Penns Manor found? But I agree, off the top of my head I can think of HC baseball, Ligonier softball, NC volleyball and girls basketball that have done very well in recent memory.
The guys that announce these games (Heritage playoff games) wonder why teams like Carroll, McCort, Central, Tyrone, Forest Hills, etc. all shut their teams down. Wake Up! They play bigger and better teams just about every week--- they aren't intimidated by a little Heritage team. Penns Manor had essentially 2 bye weeks with a tune up game thrown in inbetween. What's the worst that could have happened if they played a bigger school? They lose. OK, but, don't you think that would have helped them in the long run? But no, they can't play them, they're AA or AAA. They want a class A opponent. Give me a break.
In my opinion the Derry vs Ligonier Valley game was a farce. Derry didn't beat anyone! I don't care if they're from the WPIAL or not! LV hung their hats on that win and then got beat pretty handily by Central. Joke city.
You're right, it is a football problem. The Heritage wants to be a nice class A conference because that's what they are now and they aren't going to change. OK, well if they want to do that then I hope they realize what kind of fates await them in the playoffs when they come up against a Bellwood, Portage, McCort, or Carroll.
I haven't been following the Heritage debacle as closely as you have-- do you know who the schools were that Penns Manor found? But I agree, off the top of my head I can think of HC baseball, Ligonier softball, NC volleyball and girls basketball that have done very well in recent memory.
The guys that announce these games (Heritage playoff games) wonder why teams like Carroll, McCort, Central, Tyrone, Forest Hills, etc. all shut their teams down. Wake Up! They play bigger and better teams just about every week--- they aren't intimidated by a little Heritage team. Penns Manor had essentially 2 bye weeks with a tune up game thrown in inbetween. What's the worst that could have happened if they played a bigger school? They lose. OK, but, don't you think that would have helped them in the long run? But no, they can't play them, they're AA or AAA. They want a class A opponent. Give me a break.
In my opinion the Derry vs Ligonier Valley game was a farce. Derry didn't beat anyone! I don't care if they're from the WPIAL or not! LV hung their hats on that win and then got beat pretty handily by Central. Joke city.
You're right, it is a football problem. The Heritage wants to be a nice class A conference because that's what they are now and they aren't going to change. OK, well if they want to do that then I hope they realize what kind of fates await them in the playoffs when they come up against a Bellwood, Portage, McCort, or Carroll.
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zonebreaker
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Re: Penns Manor
I heard that PM found some larger schools out of state (Ohio, New Jersey, maybe West Virginia don't remember) that wanted them to travel. PM said no. One reason I heard was because the one was very good AAA team and they didn't want to get hurt in Week 8.
Consider that since 98, heritage has 7 d6A titles (and 1 in d6AA) in boys basketball. In that same stretch, 0 football titles.
I think one of the problems has been shown this year. There are some coaches and schools who want Ligonier Valley out of the conference due to the merger. That shows you where their priorities lie. They clearly want to have a small conference that doesn't have teams that are that good so they will be able to compete and maybe win a conference championship. With that line of reasoning, preparing for districts or states is clearly secondary.
I had to chuckle this year when I read some of the heritage coaches comments about Ligonier Valley and Penns Manor, treating them like all-star teams. One even said something about Liggy being unbelievable all-star super team even before they played. I figured neither team would be around long in d6 playoffs. So there you have another point. It looks like some of the coaches are out of touch with reality. They would prefer to only look at the small conference picture and not care about other teams an hour away. When the opposite should be true. In the offseason, scrimmages, etc, they should be tapping into Pittsburgh or Cambria-Blair.
You also have the fact that in general the larger heritage schools (and a lot of the smaller too) don't have much tradition in football. Marion Center and Ligonier before the merger were two examples. The school that had the most tradition was Laurel and with it becoming so small, it was hard for it to compete for district championships. When Northern Cambria moved from the LHAC to the Appalachian/Heritage in 94, you figure they would have helped in football but their program has pretty much been in shambles.
Consider that since 98, heritage has 7 d6A titles (and 1 in d6AA) in boys basketball. In that same stretch, 0 football titles.
I think one of the problems has been shown this year. There are some coaches and schools who want Ligonier Valley out of the conference due to the merger. That shows you where their priorities lie. They clearly want to have a small conference that doesn't have teams that are that good so they will be able to compete and maybe win a conference championship. With that line of reasoning, preparing for districts or states is clearly secondary.
I had to chuckle this year when I read some of the heritage coaches comments about Ligonier Valley and Penns Manor, treating them like all-star teams. One even said something about Liggy being unbelievable all-star super team even before they played. I figured neither team would be around long in d6 playoffs. So there you have another point. It looks like some of the coaches are out of touch with reality. They would prefer to only look at the small conference picture and not care about other teams an hour away. When the opposite should be true. In the offseason, scrimmages, etc, they should be tapping into Pittsburgh or Cambria-Blair.
You also have the fact that in general the larger heritage schools (and a lot of the smaller too) don't have much tradition in football. Marion Center and Ligonier before the merger were two examples. The school that had the most tradition was Laurel and with it becoming so small, it was hard for it to compete for district championships. When Northern Cambria moved from the LHAC to the Appalachian/Heritage in 94, you figure they would have helped in football but their program has pretty much been in shambles.
Re: Penns Manor
Regardless of if they were asked to go out of state, their reasoning was that they didn't want to get hurt? Come on. I hope that's not true. I know Ferens had a messed up shoulder last night, but it didn't even matter, he only threw for 34 yards. Bishop Carroll shut their entire offense down, plain and simple.
And trust me, I know of the Heritage football woes. What I don't understand is why they view conference championships as great achievements? There are 9 teams in their conference, and only 4 had winning records this year! I think bbsocceralumni touched on it in another thread, but I would liken that to how WestPAC championships are viewed as well. I could be wrong on that though. That just blows my mind to think that winning in the district playoffs is secondary. In that frame of mind, what are they working towards once the post season starts? Is is all gravy after the conference championship or what?
Packer said that Carroll had them scouted extremely well last night. No, Bill, they just ran it right at you all night! I've said this before, but I'll say it again; Heritage football is a different type of football. It's old timey football...and nobody can kick. The commentator, I think it was Marino interviewed Packer and asked him, "So coach, are you looking forward to that trip to Altoona next week?" before the game. I nearly spilled my adult beverage hearing that! These guys are so cocky but the can't back it up!
And I agree with you that the way PM and LV were lauded was hysterical. I knew unless LV got a cupcake in the opening round they were done. PM I figured would probably win a game, but look who they beat --- another Heritage team! It seems like it's just a round-robin of teams over there; everybody knows everybody else's moves, but whenever they get outside of the conference they struggle.
I always laugh whenever one of the color commentators brings up Bishop Carroll and the Appalachian Conference randomly. They poke fun at them for getting left out in after '99. What they choose to deny or conveniently forget is the fact that they were in the state championship! Carroll was about the closest thing they had to a school with tradition aside from Laurel Valley and maybe United. And because they kicked everybody's butts (among other things I'm sure) the conference gave them the boot. Now with Ligonier Valley history is probably going to repeat itself.
And look, I'm not trying to pick on the Heritage. It's just the teams that come out of it --- undefeaded PM, Ligonier Valley, Purchase Line a couple of years ago --- don't live up to the hype. Purchase Line was close, and I give them a lot of credit for scheduling the defending WV state champ this season. But it's been 12 years since the conference had a D6 champ. What's in the water in Indiana county?
And trust me, I know of the Heritage football woes. What I don't understand is why they view conference championships as great achievements? There are 9 teams in their conference, and only 4 had winning records this year! I think bbsocceralumni touched on it in another thread, but I would liken that to how WestPAC championships are viewed as well. I could be wrong on that though. That just blows my mind to think that winning in the district playoffs is secondary. In that frame of mind, what are they working towards once the post season starts? Is is all gravy after the conference championship or what?
Packer said that Carroll had them scouted extremely well last night. No, Bill, they just ran it right at you all night! I've said this before, but I'll say it again; Heritage football is a different type of football. It's old timey football...and nobody can kick. The commentator, I think it was Marino interviewed Packer and asked him, "So coach, are you looking forward to that trip to Altoona next week?" before the game. I nearly spilled my adult beverage hearing that! These guys are so cocky but the can't back it up!
And I agree with you that the way PM and LV were lauded was hysterical. I knew unless LV got a cupcake in the opening round they were done. PM I figured would probably win a game, but look who they beat --- another Heritage team! It seems like it's just a round-robin of teams over there; everybody knows everybody else's moves, but whenever they get outside of the conference they struggle.
I always laugh whenever one of the color commentators brings up Bishop Carroll and the Appalachian Conference randomly. They poke fun at them for getting left out in after '99. What they choose to deny or conveniently forget is the fact that they were in the state championship! Carroll was about the closest thing they had to a school with tradition aside from Laurel Valley and maybe United. And because they kicked everybody's butts (among other things I'm sure) the conference gave them the boot. Now with Ligonier Valley history is probably going to repeat itself.
And look, I'm not trying to pick on the Heritage. It's just the teams that come out of it --- undefeaded PM, Ligonier Valley, Purchase Line a couple of years ago --- don't live up to the hype. Purchase Line was close, and I give them a lot of credit for scheduling the defending WV state champ this season. But it's been 12 years since the conference had a D6 champ. What's in the water in Indiana county?
Re: Penns Manor
Penns Manor thought it would be easier to collect free points than to actually play a game that they could lose. If they could have scheduled Shade or CV I am sure that would have played.
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thereplacement2
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Re: Penns Manor
you guys say about the league wanting Ligonier out of the conference because their Too Big, and by facing bigger schools that prepares you for the playoffs? well wouldnt LV want out too so they can play schools there size and preapre for the playoffs as well? what do they get by beating Saltsburg and the rest of the below average heritage schools? nothing when there gonna ahve to compete against the Centrals and tyrones, etc. just a thought.
Re: Penns Manor
Easy answer, get rid of all the football conferences and let the single a's play the other single a's and then the double aa's play amoungst themselves. seems to work for district 7
Re: Penns Manor
No, you make a good point and I agree with you. Ligonier should want to get out and go to another conference to play better competition. I don't think they do though. Why would they? They've got a pretty sweet deal going on in the Heritage right now. Penns Manor more than likely is going to have drop off next season and it will be easier for them to win the conference championship, which, like zonebreaker said, seems from an outside perspective to mean more than district playoff victories.
My contention is that the Heritage is primarily a class A league, and from what I understand Ligonier has the potential to be AAA when the next cycle hits. I don't know if that info is totally legit, but I'll take it for now until I'm told differently.
This has been talked about before and I believe when people say that it all hinges on what Chestnut Ridge does. If Chestnut Ridge goes to the LHAC, so go the Rams, and vice versa. 14 team conference with two divisions. OR do they appeal to the WPIAL and try to get in a conference over there? Personally, I don't see them doing that because of the travel, costs, and the disparity from the level of competition they're used to. BUT, I don't see the benefit of them joining the LHAC either. Again, travel and costs.
So what does this mean? In my opinion, best case scenario - nothing changes. Next best thing - They join the LHAC with Chestnut Ridge. Worst case - Off to to the WPIAL or they go independent.
My contention is that the Heritage is primarily a class A league, and from what I understand Ligonier has the potential to be AAA when the next cycle hits. I don't know if that info is totally legit, but I'll take it for now until I'm told differently.
This has been talked about before and I believe when people say that it all hinges on what Chestnut Ridge does. If Chestnut Ridge goes to the LHAC, so go the Rams, and vice versa. 14 team conference with two divisions. OR do they appeal to the WPIAL and try to get in a conference over there? Personally, I don't see them doing that because of the travel, costs, and the disparity from the level of competition they're used to. BUT, I don't see the benefit of them joining the LHAC either. Again, travel and costs.
So what does this mean? In my opinion, best case scenario - nothing changes. Next best thing - They join the LHAC with Chestnut Ridge. Worst case - Off to to the WPIAL or they go independent.
Re: Penns Manor
youngbuck, Crimson pretty much nailed this one in my opinion.
Crimson09Crazy wrote:It would be tough with the geography of it all. The WPIAL has at least 24 teams per classification and split in 4 conferences with teams geographically close. If D6 were to go to this, We would essentially be taking out a D6 AAA and AAAA level. if Johnstown can't play McCort and Westmont, they would have to certainly go back to the WPIAL. We don't have enough teams at that level. Plus our area is so far and wide and we only have 44 schools total. travel goes up big time, and for all sports. that would be costly. AA could split into 2 8 team divisions. A would have an 11 and 12 team league. I just don't see it ever happening.
Re: Penns Manor
Radical Changes for D6? circa 2005.
It's old, some of the teams have changed classifications, but it's a framework for what you're proposing youngbuck. I know this was brought up at a D6 meeting not too long ago and it got shot down pretty quickly so I don't think it's going to happen.
It's old, some of the teams have changed classifications, but it's a framework for what you're proposing youngbuck. I know this was brought up at a D6 meeting not too long ago and it got shot down pretty quickly so I don't think it's going to happen.
Re: Penns Manor
I am a fan of the Heritage but it was embarrassing to see both Ligonier and PM get their heads handed to them. The last teams from the Heritage to actually have a chance at the title were the Blairsville teams of 04-05 and 06. All three lost very close games to BC, one in overtime. Two of those games, I believe Blairsville was winning at the half. The last two years Blairsville may have had the worst teams in their history. United was way down but seems to be coming back a bit. And HC seems to be an average team year in and year out. Who knows why things are as bad as they are at the present time. Maybe, as an earlier poster said, "Its in the water". 
Good luck to all teams next week.
Good luck to all teams next week.