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Yes but you CAN CONSPIRE to ignore child rape to protect an old crony and avoid embarassment. Curley, Shultz, Spanier, and Paterno did just that.

Honestly, a calculated cover up of these situations is really hard for me to believe too. That would have been pure evil. With that said, all 4 of these self centered egomaniacs took the information, passed it on, and hoped it wasn't true so that the university wouldn't be disgraced and so the PSU football money machine could keep printing.

The biggest issue is that they all knew about Jer's proclivities and attraction to young boys in both 1998 AND 2002.

You will never convince me that all 4 didn't believe they had a likely pedophile on their hands in 1998 and a serial pedophile by 2002. That includes the ringleader Mr. Paterno. Whether Curley's e-mail (paraphrased: "After discussing things with coach, I decided to...") was referring to Paterno or not, it s entirely reasonable for one to draw the conclusion that Mr. Paterno knew EVERYTHING that affected the university of football program in any way given the autocracy that he created. If you think JVP didn't know about 1998 and 2002, you're naïve. Yet, Joe and the others continued to allow Uncle Jer to use the Lasch showers as his playground, take him and his victims on bowl trips, knowing full well that he was sharing rooms with the young boys.

C'mon, TAE. JVP knew about 1998 and 2002. He knew something wasn't right with Jer. Both are more than reasonable conclusions. Do you think JVP approved the travel entourages to Bowl Games? OF COURSE HE DID.

Do you think JVP could have said to Curley and Spanier, "Hey guys, there is NO WAY that Jer is permitted in our travel party anymore, much less Jer bringing his young 2nd Mile kids along. I will not allow this anymore. Period. End of discussion."

How hard would it have been for JVP to ban Jer from the bowl travel parties? IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A PIECE OF CAKE. Yet under JVP's watch, Jer took a victim to the 2004 Alamo Bowl and molested him. JVP did not at the very least have the courage to stand up and do what I just said. That molestation at the Alamo Bowl is on JVP as far as I am concerned.

All 4 of those clowns LED BY PATERNO closed their eyes, and hoped they would never be caught.

Spanier's e-mail to Curley talking about the ramifications of not pursuing 2002 with Jer proves this.

All 4 were abysmal failures, and in my opinion, this type of failure trumps any and all "good" that JVP did with his library donations made with the cameras rolling, etc.

Here's a key point folks forget: Jer was caught only because Central Mountain SD reported him (and they even did so reluctanty.) PSU DID ABSOLUTEY NOTHING TO STOP JER.

As matter of fact, if it was up to PSU AND THOSE 4 slapdoodles, Jer would still be working out at Lasch with Tom Bradley every morning, showering there with young boys, hanging out in the President's Box at all the games, giving free football tickets to his prey, and using PSU football as his bait for victims.

Shouldn't it make you PSU followers sick that your university used their revenue (bowl trips, football tickets etc.) to feed Jer's hunger for violating children? Shouldn't it anger you that JOE PATERNO was so reckless, irresponsible, and immoral, and that his gross lack of leadership caused children to be destroyed, unprecedented NCAA violations, and financial losses which will be over a quarter BILLION dollars when all is said and done?

If he were alive, Paterno would have had the cuffs on him like his 3 colleagues did, and he'd be facing a preliminary hearing next week along with the rest of them.

Those are the facts, and the facts are undisputed.

What exactly are you arguing? Penn State would have rolled in money even if the incident was reported. The bottom line is this... The Sanctions will be reduced sooner rather than later. Do you care to place a wager on that? The NCAA's job is to prevent teams from having a competitive advantage. The Police were put in place to handle the 4 individuals being discussed. If North Carolina does not get sanctions for creating fake classes and Oregon does not get sanctions for recruiting violations, then Penn State should not have sanctions placed on the for a criminal matter. If so, they should be investigating a lot of things at Florida right now.

The NCAA will be waiting until the outcome of the trials to do anything further. That is the only prudent course of action. What if further NCAA violations are unearthed in the trials? Why would the NCAA risk having egg on their face if more violations surface? TAE, you're clearly leaving out the distinct possibility that information/evidence could be presented in the trials that may be even more damning than what we already know. If Paterno and friends would close their eyes to a pedophile, what else would they ignore? You mention the Clery Act report being completed. If it was in favor of PSU, they would have trumpeted the results all over universe. My bet is that PSU's CleryAct reporting was non-existent and they'll be paying more fines.

Clearly there was a lack of institutional control at Penn State...or should I say total institutional control by Paterno?

For once I do agree with Titan. The NCAA will not do anything until the trials are over becuase of the reasons he states. But this brings up the question that everybody is still asking. Should they (NCAA) have the power to already establish the sanctions they put in place for a criminal act?? The answer is NO!! As I stated many times I am a father and I am apalled of what happened at PSU. But I don't think anybody knows you knew what and when without the trials that are coming. Once things come out in the criminal court then hopefully we will get the answers. I don't think anybody knows all the answers even though Titan and the NCAA thinks they do. We'll see.

WPIAL~Titan wrote:The NCAA will be waiting until the outcome of the trials to do anything further. That is the only prudent course of action. What if further NCAA violations are unearthed in the trials? Why would the NCAA risk having egg on their face if more violations surface? TAE, you're clearly leaving out the distinct possibility that information/evidence could be presented in the trials that may be even more damning than what we already know. If Paterno and friends would close their eyes to a pedophile, what else would they ignore? You mention the Clery Act report being completed. If it was in favor of PSU, they would have trumpeted the results all over universe. My bet is that PSU's CleryAct reporting was non-existent and they'll be paying more fines.

Clearly there was a lack of institutional control at Penn State...or should I say total institutional control by Paterno?

i am shocked louie freeh didnt find all the info titan is waiting to hear

Hey KULTHerbstreit, you're usually a pretty smart guy but you dropped the ball on this one. Your reasoning is beyond weak.

Surely you are smarter than your previous posts in this thread show. In other words, you cannot be serious. You sound like freaking Franco the Clown or Lubrano.

While Freeh's work was solid enough to show patterns and to draw sound conclusions about Paterno, Curley, Shultz, and Spanier, he did not have subpoena power.

The criminal proceeding will feature key folks who refused to speak with Freeh, and those people will be testifying under oath.

I expect there could be dozens of witnesses plus many pieces of concrete evidence from the prosecution. Of course, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz (along with JoePed who took the easy way out by dying) are all already pathological liars, so who knows what they will say even when under oath. If they choose to continue to lie, they will surely do time. I can't wait to see who sings first in exchange for immunity. These preliminary hearings and trials are going to be a circus worthy of big time CourtTV.

With that said, I'm betting that there is a proliferation of overwhelming evidence which will prove PSU and those in charge made grave errors and were grossly negligent in their handling of Uncle Jer, the second in command of your beloved football program for two decades. Just read the GJ testimony and you see the lies from Shultz, Curley, and Spanier. Also, take a moment against to read the e-mails from 1998 and 2002 and Shultz's handwritten notes as well. Just that evidence alone is pretty damning. The basis is there for an avalanche of evidence that is likely to bury all of them...Spanier, Shultz, and Curley, as well as the dead guy.

While this is all going on, just don't forget that Uncle Jer was the flaming pedophile whose defensive game plans delivered your only 2 NCs. Think there's some taint to those championships now?

Now, at last...Just go back to taking about how great PSU is, they have the best recruits, the sanctions aren't hurting the university or the football program...blah-blah-blah...It's arrogant and sanctimonious thinking like that from PSU's leadership which caused the problems in the first place, and it's the arrogance from the PSU fans like you which repulses those outside of the cult.

...AND while you're doing that, just remember that the entire world outside of you and your fellow cultists know that your empty mantras like Success with Honor, the Grand Experiment, etc. are nothing more than myths, fallacies, fairy tales, and punch lines as your football program is not only dirty but disgusting and sickening. This isn't the stuff the PSU Cultists like you lorded over the rest of the world with your WE ARE...PERFECT, WE DO THINGS THE RIGHT WAY, THE PENN STATE WAY attitude and arrogance, pointing your fingers and turning your noses up at tOSU, The U, and SEC schools. This isn't just trading bowl jerseys for tats or getting free cars from alums or having a few $100s slipped to players after games.

It's FAR WORSE.

The character of Switzer and Sherrill is that of Mother Teresa when put next to JoePed and the rest of them.

Thank God college football hasn't been left to the Paternos, Curleys, Spaniers, and Shultzs of the world.

Indeed.

Think about that for awhile.

never once said Joe Paterno is innocent or is not accountable. I just don't think it's to the level that was portrayed in the Freeh report.

Interesting prelim hearing so far. I am wondering after all this is presented who will sing first???

JoePed: "Hey Mike, Old Main screwed up. Lawyer up and don't trust anyone."

JoePed: "Hey Red, Jerry sure is a sick man."

A secret file which was not turned over until a SECRETARY found it then took them to her former boss Shultz knowing full well that an investigation was taking place, and she gets immunity...(hmm, wonder what either could have shredded before turning over the file?)

E-mails and handwritten notes from both 1998 and 2001 involving Shultz, Curley, and Spanier which are damning and incriminate Paturdo, Shultz, Spanier, and Curley. "After talking it over with coach...", "It's a humane way to proceed...", "If the message isn't heard, we could be liable...", "Opening up Pandora's box..." Agreeing to allow Jer to continue to coach BUT ONLY UNDER PATURDO (hey wait, I thought Joe hated Jer? Could it be that they wanted to keep Jer under their thumb and protect his insatiable habit of seducing children??)

Lies told by everyone for decades.

Discussions and common knowledge among the coaching staff that JerBear was a perv.

You simply cannot make this stuff up!

McQueary is so brainwashed that he is probably lying about some things and leaving a lot out too.

Lying and deception seems to be the SOP at PSU.

What an absolute CIRCUS.

What an absolute disgrace.

Success With YOUR Honor. The Grand EXCREMENT. The Penn State Way.

Hey, I'll bet that Emmert and the rest of the NCAA board will be rushing into the offices tomorrow to not only reduce, but eliminate the PSU sanctions, right KultHebstreit?

WE ARE...

Yeah, you sure are.

Based on the evidence provided yesterday, I feel more confident than ever the sanctions will be reduced. The "Cover up" fabrication Louie Freeh came up with is now laughable. I will say what I have said from the beginning. If you think Paterno handled things the way he should have, then yesterday was a reality check. However, if you think there was a cover up, then yesterday was also a reality check. Joe Paterno and the football program should be the last thing they are looking at right now.

If there was a cover up, I ask you to answer a few questions.

- Why is Mike Mcqueary never told to keep quiet about the incident? (He is free to do so at any time)
- Why does Mike Mcqueary say "Joe Paterno, to be honest with you, was great throughout the whole thing"
- Why would Mike Mcqueary blame himself before anyone else if he feels there was a cover up
- Why does Paterno tell Mcqueary not to trust Cynthia Baldwin or Old Main if it were a football issue and he didnt care about Mcqueary.

As one of the reporters, who is not associated with Penn State, said at the end of the first day. After listening to todays testimony this reeks more of a Screw up than a cover up.