Hollidaysburg Basketball Investigation

[223113]

What was the competititve advantage gained if true?

First, let me say, I have no dog in this fight. Just bored, making conversation.

I don't know if there was a competitive advantage to be gained, or not. On the surface, it allowed them to have 16 players suited, ready to play, rather than 12, in the unlikely event of a rash of injuries. The replacements could've been better/worse than the players they were posing to be.

But, that isn't the point.

I do know that the PIAA doesn't make Rules that come with a footnote like, "If the school violating this Rule, in that school's opinion, is not gaining a competitive advantage by breaking this Rule,...then that school can choose to disregard this Rule."

You simply can't pick and choose what Rules you follow, like it is a buffet line.

[D6SportsNetworks]

#2, #14, #30, and #35 were out of town at the time of their first round game. They dressed players not on their PIAA roster in place of #2 and #14. Most people especially noticed this when they announced the original kids' names when their replacements were checked into the game towards the end.

Did they actually announce the Absent players names?
Such as, "Now entering the game, #2, Joe Smith." But, the person wearing the uniform WASN'T Joe Smith?

Golden Tigers:
"Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows basketball has no official roster. The only official document is the official scoresheet on game night which could change game to game. A player can wear a different number every night if he chooses. Not an issue at all."

If they Turned In an Official Scoresheet, with #2, Joe Smith on it,...but the person that wore that uniform wasn't Joe Smith,....that IS an issue.
From the PIAA Rules:
ARTICLE XI
ASSUMED NAME
A student who participates in an Inter-School Practice, Scrimmage, or Contest in a sport under a name other than the student’s own is ineligible to participate in that sport for up to one year from the date of such participation under an assumed name. This penalty may be modified by the PIAA Board of Directors upon proof by the student of a lack of culpability by the student, that such participation was encouraged, arranged, and/or facilitated by a Coach of the student, and that the student's school has taken appropriate disciplinary action acceptable to the PIAA Board of Directors against those adults responsible for such participation.
Additionally, any person encouraging, facilitating, and/or assisting a student to participate in an Inter-School Practice, Scrimmage, and/or Contest in a sport under a name other than the student's own is, if the student does indeed so participate under an assumed name and regardless of discipline imposed by the school on said individual, ineligible to Coach any Team in that sport at any PIAA member school for up to one year from the date of such participation by the student under an assumed name.

Yes, the players that were out of town, were announced, when the players entering the game were not those kids. And regarding the roster changing night to night, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that if a player that isn't on the official varsity roster sent to PIAA at the beginning of the year (such as a JV player) then that person can't be substituted on any given night. Although these players didn't make an impact on the game, they were subbed in at the end and actually did see playing time. Regardless of their contributions, it is still a form of cheating nonetheless. Classless move by Hollidaysburg.

[Manfred]

Unless you are a private or charter school. Just sayin'.

[Joe Bivitz]

Not sure of all the details here, and I don't have any inside information, but I will say this: I know of a young H-burg player who was not dressing for Varsity early in the year and was only playing JV. I was surprised to see his name in the box score of the lopsided game in question because I assumed he was only a JV player. The fact that his name was reported to the local newspaper in the box score, I can assume HIS name was in fact in the official scorebook for that game. I can't imagine that the person announcing the game was also keeping the official book or possibly even sitting at the scorers table within view of the official book. I'm guessing that maybe the announcer was using a general roster from the D6 program or perhaps a roster from maxpreps. Maybe the players that were wearing the uniform numbers of the missing players were wearing those numbers because they were the only uniforms available. Could just be a simple misunderstanding.

[223113]

I hope you're right, just a simple misunderstanding. If so, it's probably related to a printed roster that the announcer had. I seriously doubt that a JV player, playing up, would need a Varsity player to give up a uniform, for that to happen. Most school's JV and Varsity teams have the same uniforms, so that if a JV player has earned the shot at moving up, or if they're needed, due to Varsity injuries, there's no Chinese fire drill over uniforms. I'm sure Hollidaysburg didn't go into the season with only 16 uniforms.

[Proudparent]

Seriously... No rule was violated.. No calls were made to a friend who works for Piaa. No calls or emails were sent from d6, West Mifflin coaches or fans.. This is just someone stirring the pot from within because the season didn't go how they had invisioned it. No such thing as a playoff roster. The official scorebook was accurate including kids names and numbers. No way to attack the coaching staff or the kids for what they accomplished because the play on the court was outstanding... Who and why they stirred this is probably the worse kept secret in Hollidaysburg. Please investigate whatever you want but I think this witch hunt isn't that hard to figure out.. Congratulations to the athletic department the coaching staff and the players you have restored the pride in the program..

[D6SportsNetworks]

I hope you're right, just a simple misunderstanding. If so, it's probably related to a printed roster that the announcer had. I seriously doubt that a JV player, playing up, would need a Varsity player to give up a uniform, for that to happen. Most school's JV and Varsity teams have the same uniforms, so that if a JV player has earned the shot at moving up, or if they're needed, due to Varsity injuries, there's no Chinese fire drill over uniforms. I'm sure Hollidaysburg didn't go into the season with only 16 uniforms.

They did go into the season with only 15 uniforms. Their JV uniforms are different from their Varsity. Also, I think everyone's missing the point that the JV players that took the uniforms were not on the original PIAA issued roster. I tried calling PIAA to get more info and they will tell you that they're already investigating the matter. And even if you claim that they were on the PIAA roster, then why did they not receive District medals when Hollidaysburg beat somerset?

[223113]

I hope you're right, just a simple misunderstanding. If so, it's probably related to a printed roster that the announcer had. I seriously doubt that a JV player, playing up, would need a Varsity player to give up a uniform, for that to happen. Most school's JV and Varsity teams have the same uniforms, so that if a JV player has earned the shot at moving up, or if they're needed, due to Varsity injuries, there's no Chinese fire drill over uniforms. I'm sure Hollidaysburg didn't go into the season with only 16 uniforms.

They did go into the season with only 15 uniforms. Their JV uniforms are different from their Varsity. Also, I think everyone's missing the point that the JV players that took the uniforms were not on the original PIAA issued roster. I tried calling PIAA to get more info and they will tell you that they're already investigating the matter. And even if you claim that they were on the PIAA roster, then why did they not receive District medals when Hollidaysburg beat somerset?

Wow. Just enough uniforms to cover the 16 on their Roster. Not even 1 spare, in case someone tore one, or lost one. Hmmm,....not the way I would go into a season, but then, with 4 players absent, I would've gone to that game with 12 players. But, that's just my opinion. Thanks D6SN, for clarifying why there would've been a need to use someone else's uniform.

[Joe Bivitz]

How is it that 4 players are out of town for the first game of the state playoffs?

[PsuDfense30]

I'm not an expert at all on this matter, but when I read the argument that "they weren't on the roster submitted at the beginning of the year", it raises a question to me. When does this roster have to be submitted? Before any games begin? Because I've seen multiple times when kids don't come out for the team, but come out maybe a week or two into the season, don't play right away due to missing practice but work their way into some playing time by playoff time. Those kids wouldn't have been on the roster submitted "before the season", because they weren't on the team yet but are still able to play without the school breaking PIAA rules. Again, I'm not saying Hburg did or did not do this, but how does this rule make sense when it applies to one instance and not the other?