Sivits gets jail time.....

[LionPride]

I agree -- there's not been enough outrage for Berg even though he knew he was in dangerous territory and was urged to get out of the country. But to blame his death on the humiliation of the prisoners is ridiculous. The people -- the animals -- that killed Berg could care less about the treatment of Iraqi prisoners. The want only one thing: to destroy America and all it represents. The prisoner scandal was just a convenient excuse for another atrocity -- not that they ever need excuses.

Right on the mark. I agree with that 100%.

[bison1]

One thing i find interesting is the report from yahoo coach posted said Sivits recieved a bad conduct discharge, while the newspaper yesterday reported he was dishonorably discharged. Those are two completely different things with the latter being much more serious than the other. If anyone knows for certain what the actual discharge was please post it.

Also i think it's a bit of an understatement saying all he got was a demotion. He got kicked out of the Army and will have trouble getting a job for the rest of his life. I'm not condoning what he did; however, it does seem like all he did was take pictures and he didn't actually abuse anyone. That is, if he's telling the truth...

[arssites]

He was not dishonorably discharged. He got a bad conduct discharge. The army was all that Jeremy ever wanted to do. I don't believe what Jeremy supposively did was right but he wasn't in any of the pictures. All Jeremy told me was that he was just following orders and that shows how much he wanted to be in the army. I don't believe he could do anything that bad without being ordered to do it.

[Gunner18]

i can understand his situation about following orders, but being a soldier he has to be able to decide if those orders are appropriate, in such a case as this, he would most likely have been promoted and his CO would have been the one getting the boot had he not followed the orders

[fleaflicker]

Gunner, you're going to boot camp in a few months. The first thing they do at Paris Island (where you will likely be going) is to try and break your will. They disallow you from any newspapers, televison, and you have very little outside contact. They try to make every day a living h*ll for you. Why? So that you will obey orders without question. And it works. Perhaps a bit too well. I have a cousin that just got out of four years in the Marines. So when you're in the army or any branch of the armed forces, it takes a large pair to refuse to obey an order from a superior officer.

[Gunner18]

they teach u how to make responsible decisions and if that involves being subordinate because ur being ordered to do something morally wrong, than thats what they want!

[CRLionDawg]

This statement in no way condones the actions of Sivits or the other soldiers involved. It would be my opinion that he was carrying out orders from a superior, more than likely tacitly. Our Armed Forces have been receiving a lot of physical threats and ultimate harm in this Iraqi War. A lot of it is delivered without any prior warning. Daily they are in the face of imminent danger. As inhumane as some of these acts were in the prison, perhaps they were a small retaliation for the many deaths at the hands of these animals.

Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Lionpride- thanks for "getting it", my last post, and your explanation for foghorn and others that didn't. I was trying to keep it short and simple( K.I.S.S.). I feel bad for Sivits, and the other reserves in trouble. I was a former member of 876th Engineers in the 70's. We, as Reserves and NG's, undergo the same basic training as regular Army forces, except we get to go home after basic and AIT. The joke was we were all the same rank, PFC. That stood for Proud ####### Civilians. Was the decision to extend these Reserves duty in Iraq in any way responsible for their actions? I personally think so, as would most of you, if told you were going home and then you were told you weren't. Sometimes the rational is the hell with this, lets have some fun as long as we're stuck here. I can see how some would feel this way, but again it doesn't make it "right". I asked before, just how do you interrogate prisoners? Someone just in an above post said about Marine BC they try to break you. Exactly what you do to prisoners. Find their weakness and exploit it. That was what was done, to a certain extent. We have the freedom of information act- do some research to find what has been done to our men when captured in conflicts present and past. As for Nick Berg- OK, he was on his own and could have taken a plane home but was his Jewish heritage AND American citizenship to blame for what he got? Earlier we had 4 civilian contractors killed, dismembered, burned and dragged through the street and hung on a bridge. Where were the pictures plastered all over the LIBERAL-dominated media for this? Right, there weren't any. They sugar coat everything like that for us, because they don't want to excite the pro-conservative (Bush) people in this country in an election year. I recently read where 18 months after we told the world we had the M.O.A.B.(Mother of all bombs) 21,000 lb'er, we are putting it into "mothballs" at eglin airbase in Fla. I say what for? If you have a big stick, use it! maybe it will revise these animals' ways of thinking about us. For everyone- read from the USA Today May 19 2004 edition, page 21A, "A Marine sees what defeatists don't", by Maj. Ben Connable. The article was too long to post or quote here, so for those with time to spare to attempt to belittle what we're doing over there, READ IT! His last comment says it best, "All we ask is that Americans stand by us by supporting not just the troops, but also the Mission. We'll take care of the rest."

[dangerousmind]

I understand where everyone is coming from. Just don't judge Jeremy from what you hear on the news. We don't have the full story.

[CRLionDawg]

Locally it appears that Jeremy Sivits is getting a fair shot. Nationally he is the face of the mistreatment and abuse.

The question is this, since a number of you personally know him, do you think you would be more critical of the situation if you didnot know the person involved? Would you be less sympathetic to the reasoning if it was a complete stranger who committed the acts?