Big East/Big Ten

[Goodwill]

I think that the Big preTENd is a fraud...I'd bet a box of JOKEpa's Depends on that.

Another classic post from how man WPinheAdl-titan. Talkin smack in da hood again. lmao

[Captain Coveman]

Quit trying to win the argument using fact RoadToad. You know that facts never prove anything

[The Ancient Enemy]

Let's not pretend like Michigan doesn't have the talent to win their next ten games, please. Does USF or Rutgers?

You guys forget how badly WVU's defense has played since Rich Rodriguez took over. And this year's Louisville team isn't much better than Michigan's, defense-wise. I love how you casually put Michigan in the same box as Cincinnati and UCONN.

Trying to be objective here, even though none of you can, how do you think any of the Big East teams would fare against Appalachian State or Oregon? We're assuming that Oregon comes to play that week, like they did against UM, since Oregon has a tendency to play very badly sometimes.

Obviously, Louisville and WVU have a good chance to win a shoot-out with Appalachian State... just like Michigan did. That's the thing about a shoot-out: either team can win the game. Judging by what I have seen over years from WVU, and from this season's UL defense, I would say it's a 50-50 chance that either of them could stop a smart team like Appalachian State from keeping it close. And remember, a blocked kick won it for them against Michigan. They could keep it that tight against UL or WVU, IMO.

What about Oregon? Here you have a team who runs a similar offense to Appalachian State. Oregon benefits from the weaknesses that the previous opponent found in Michigan's secondary. Only thing is that Oregon has more talent player-to-player than Appalachian State does. So it makes sense that Oregon would beat Michigan. Can any of the Big East teams stop Oregon on a weekend that Oregon decides to play hard, and not play like a team who would lose to San Jose State?

Let's look at the Big Ten "powerhouses" this year:

- Michigan: 4 veteran offensive players who are near the top of the league at their respective positions. Defense is extremely young and inexperienced due to graduation.

- Ohio State: Young all over the field this year. Lost a lot of players again. Quality recruiting built depth, which will always make them a 9-3 team or better.

- Penn State: 95% of players who get time are sophomores and freshmen.

- Wisconsin: Seems like a team who is moving up, but I'm not sold on them offensively or defensively yet.

- Iowa: Iowa is still Iowa. They'll show up and play.

Now you look at those 5 teams in 2007 and tell me why they aren't doing all that great. You go back and look through the threads and you'll see that I told you months ago that the Big Ten will be great within itself this year, but there will not be any national title contenders. I told numerous people that the winner of the Big Ten will probably have 2 losses. So keep railing about how the Big Ten is down. Once again, I am right, per usual.

It's real easy to say "well, look at what USF did at Auburn". Well, look at what Auburn has to offer us in 2007: nothing. They are not very good, they are very depleted. Look at how Louisville and WVU have been struggling on defense. I don't know what Rutgers and Navy game you guys watched, but I saw a game that was a lot closer than the final score indicated. Rutgers isn't very good.

We have a season here that is wide open. For all the hype on USC and LSU, I'm not sold on either of them yet. I really think USC is severely overrated, and LSU MIGHT be the real deal, but I don't like Flynn's play for whatever reason. The bottom-line is that nobody is unbeatable. Every team has questions this year. USC might end up with 3 losses. LSU could very conceivably lose 2-3 games in the SEC.

Cincinnati is playing better, but let's not forget who got that ball rolling and where they just went. USF got a nice win but it was over the worst Auburn team we've seen in years. WVU's recruiting is still terrible, and UL's is just decent. Is the Big East really moving up, or is everything still able to be viewed as situational?

[Former Wildcat]

Reality check. Ohio State is young on offense. Their defense is very experienced. I would take either OSU or PSU over any team in the Big East because those teams would not be able to score on the OSU and PSU defenses. Last year, OSU had a young defense and got burned the last two games of the year. This year, the group resembles the one from two years ago that was like a brick wall. There is no way that a team who gives up 42 points to Middle Tennessee St. would beat either PSU or OSU.

[hilltoppanther]

The way TAE spins, he has to be a far-left liberal.

I love how you can use youth as an excuse for Michigan in the Big Ten but the same cannot be used for Auburn. You describe Auburn as "not very good" but Michigan and Ohio State get a free pass because they are young. Your spin got you in trouble as someone pointed out that Ohio State is not young on defense.

You also say, "The Big Ten is great within itself." What does that mean? Heck, the WestPac is great within itself too!
Keep telling yourself that the Big Ten is "great within itself" as they poop to bed again during the bowl season.

I have to disagree when you say that the winner of the Big Ten will have two losses. Penn State will run the table in the Big Ten. If they don't, then they are not as good as advertised. The Big Ten is is not very good after Penn State this year.

Michigan does have the talent to win their next 9 games not 10 because the Big Ten is weak. They won't beat Penn State and of course they will lose their bowl game like recent history would suggest.

The Rutgers/Navy game was never in question. One didn't even have to watch the game to figure that out. Read the play-by-play or box score and you can see that the game was never in question, even with Navy's touchdown with :52 left in the game.

I am going to use the TAE built-in excuse if Pitt were to lose at Michigan State on Saturday. They are young. On top of that, we lost our top QB, top WR, and top Defensive lineman to injuries.

Remember, the Big East is great within itself.

[The Ancient Enemy]

What does that mean? Heck, the WestPac is great within itself too!

Yes, what's wrong with saying that? The WestPac IS good within itself, i.e., the conference itself is full of teams who can beat eachother. That's all that means. I'd say the Big East is also good within itself this year, if USF is a quality #4, in 2007.

Michigan is young, as I said. Where they are different from Auburn is in Hart, Henne, Long, and Manningham. Auburn doesn't have a player better than any of those 4. That's the difference.

And Wildcat, there is ONE senior starting for Ohio State on defense: Larry Grant. Besides, last year OSU broke in 9 new defensive starters. Does 1 season make you a seasoned veteran?

BTW there is 1 senior starting on offense, too: Kirk Barton at Tackle.

What I was saying about Ohio State was that they can afford to lose 9 defensive starters and still play in the national championship. There was little to no debate about this selection. It was not a fluke, or politics. They were clearly the best team in the country until January. Ohio State built great depth off of their sustained recruiting. We're talking both sides of the ball, here. Louisville is showing that this is not the case with them, and certainly it is not the case with West Virginia. The closest thing the Big East has to strong recruiting is Rutgers keeping kids in-state now a little bit.

Where does WVU go when White and Slaton leave? Noel Devine can't do it on his own. And his defense certainly won't be helping.

I love this: Who built Louisville? John L. Smith. Where did he go? A Big Ten school. What happened there? He got obliterated when he had to play quality opponents in the conference. Bobby Petrino takes over and wins a ton of games with Smith's players and gets all the credit for it. What did Petrino do? Left. Who's responsible for the WVU offense? Rick Trickett. Where'd he go? Florida State to take the same dang job. Who got the ball rolling in Cincinnati? Mark Dantonio. Where's he from? Ohio State. Where'd he go? Right back to the Big Ten.

Keep firing away, hilltop, I can knock those arrows down all day long like I have for 5 years.

[vman]

Often times people don't pay attn. 'cause they don't like what they see.....now pre-season Vman posted this data from the end of the '06 season:

Best Conferences On Records & Wins In 2006 Links

I. Best Conference Overall Consensus 2006:
1. SEC 1,1,2,1,2,2,2-TOTAL 11
2. BIG EAST 2,2,3,2,1,1,2-TOTAL 13
3. PAC-10 4,3,1,3,4,3,3-TOTAL 21
4. BIG TEN 3,4,4,5,3,4,4-TOTAL 27
5. ACC 6,5,5,4,6,6,5-TOTAL 37
6. BIG-12 5,6,6,6,5,5,6-TOTAL 39

II. BILLINGSLEY 2006 CONFERENCE RANKINGS:
1. SEC 265.966
2. BIG EAST 264.365
3. BIG TEN 260.392
4. PAC-10 252.475
5. BIG-12 242.788
6. ACC 241.788

III. WOLFE CONFERENCE 2006 RANKINGS:
RANK-CONFERENCE-RATING-SE
1. SEC 5.696 .429
2. BIG EAST 5.505 .455
3. PAC-10 5.425 .333
4. BIG- TEN 4.935 .103
5. ACC 4.759 .142
6. BIG-12 4.584 .319

IV: ANDERSON-HESTER 2006 CONFERENCE RANKINGS:
RATING-OOC/W/L-SOS
1. PAC-10 .645 25-12 .542
2. SEC .644 47-10 .443
3. BIG EAST .630 37-8 .430
4. BIG TEN .550 35-17 .445
5. ACC .531 33-23 .478
6. BIG-12 .525 11-31 .438

V. SAGARIN 2006 CONFERENCE RANKINGS:
1. SEC 81.60 81.23
2. BIG EAST 79.57 79.90
3. PAC-10 78.78 79.15
4. ACC 75.49 73.79
5. BIG TEN 74.89 75.62
6. BIG-12 74.34 74.01

VI. COLLEY 2006 CONFERENCE RANKINGS:
1. BIG EAST 31-8 .755
2. SEC 39-10 .729
3. BIG TEN 29-15 .633
4. PAC-10 20-12 .627
5. BIG 12 26-19 .544
6. ACC 25-22 .536

VII. BEST CONFERENCE VERSUS BCS SCHOOLS:
1. BIG EAST 12-7 .632%
2. SEC 11-7 .611%
3. PAC-10 9-6 .600%
4. BIG-TEN 7-10 .412%
5. BIG-12 6-11 .353%
6. ACC 6-14 .300%

VIII. BEST OUT OF CONFERENCE RECORD:
1. SEC 47-10 .824
2. BIG EAST 37-8 .822
3. PAC-10 25-12 .676
4. BIG TEN 35-17 .673
5. ACC 33-23 .589
6. BIG-12 11-31 .261

XI. CONFERENCE % IN TOP 25 POLLS:
1. SEC 6/12 Teams 50%
2. BIG EAST 3/8 Teams 38%
3. BIG TEN 4/11 Teams 36%
4. PAC-10 3/10 Teams 30%
5. ACC 3/12 Teams 25%
6. BIG-12 2/12 Teams 17%

X. BEST BOWL RECORD:
1. BIG EAST 5-0 1000% (5/8 Teams 63%)
2. SEC 6-3 .667% (9/12 Teams 67%)
3. ACC 4-4 .500% (8/12 Teams 66%)
4. PAC-10 3-3 .500% (6/10 Teams 60%)
5. BIG-12 3-5 .375% (8/12 Teams 66%)
6. BIG-10 2-5 .286% (7/11 Teams 64%)

XI. WINNING RECORDS IN CONFERENCE:
1. SEC 8/12 Teams 67%
1. ACC 8/12 TEAMS 67%
1. BIG-12 8/12 67%
4. BIG EAST 5/8 Teams 63%
5. PAC-10 6/10 Teams 60%
6. BIG TEN 5/11 Teams 45%

Then I had my on crack errr crack staff come up w/ here & now data...they found:

From COLLEGE FOOTRBAL . COM

Conference Power Rankings
Rank Conferenc *Power
1. PAC-10 73.29
2. SEC 71.95
3. Big East 71.24
4. Big 10 69.06
5. Big 12 68.61
6. ACC 68.43
7. Mtn West 64.30
8. WAC 61.51
9. Inds. 61.34
10. CUSA 60.62
11. MAC 59.16
12. Sun Belt 57.96

Then that gem of a fellow, producing simply irrefutable data re. CFB Conferences: JUNKY

Junky's College Football Rankings:
Ranking of All Division 1-A College Football Teams

Conference Rankings

Rank ConferenceTeams Ave Score Ave Rank High Rank Low Rank
1 Big East 8 32.564 34.6 3 90
2 Big Ten 11 28.158 40.4 5 116
3 Big 12 12 27.823 39.6 2 118
4 SEC 12 27.283 42.5 1 102
5 PAC-10 10 26.500 41.4 8 88
6 ACC 12 12.136 58.0 13 111
7 Mtn West 9 6.656 64.6 15 112
8 MAC 12 -1.986 76.1 28 115
9 Conf USA 12 -5.752 76.5 27 119
10 Sun Belt 8 -17.315 91.3 70 114
11 WAC 9 -19.075 91.6 37 117

There is none so blind as he who will not see!!

[hilltoppanther]

TAE, a few arrows have penetrated your thin skin.

I'm still waiting for bdftbllham55's spin on my rebuttal.

Across the nation in all collegiate sports, coaches love to return home. They return to the school, region, league, or head coach that they worked at or played at before. That being said, the Big Ten is 100 years older than the Big East. Many of the coaches that have come through the young Big East, had Big Ten ties. They built their resume and returned to where they started. As the Big East gets older, coaches will stay longer and other BCS conference coaches will come there.

Sure John L. Smith left Louisville for Michigan State. Ironically he was Big Ten Coach of the Year in his rookie season. Petrino was his top recruiter at Louisville so the players were Petrino's as much as Smith's. Petrino left for the NFL, who wouldn't. Saban left of the best programs in the country for the NFL. It doesn't make it a bad job.

Since we are on the "someone else's players argument". Bret Bielema won with Alvarez's players. The verdict is still out on him. After their performance at UNLV, the verdict might not be a good one.

That is beginning to change in the Big East. Several coaches were courted last year yet remained. Schiano and Leavitt turned down Miami. Rodgriguez resisted the tempation from Alabama and stayed at WVU.

I will now predict TAE'sr rebuttal.......They couldn't handle it is any other league.

The Big East has obviously hired good coaches over their young existence. They have brought in successful coaches head coaches and assistants from the collegiate level as well as successful NFL assistants.

Let's look at Ron Zook from Ilinois, who by all Big Ten fan accounts, is turning around the Illini program. Well, he failed at Florida yet is "turning around Illinois." What does that say about the Big Ten.

[WALTER4]

It says that Florida was already up, and had no where to go but down, Illinois was a sad, sad football team, who had no where to go but up. And their coach just wasn't making it happen. Enter Ron Zook, and the team is slowly rising.

[hilltoppanther]

Zook took Florida down when all he had to do was maintain. He couldn't cut it in NCAA's best football conference in the biggest recruiting state in America. So off to the Big Ten.