Penns Manor
Re: Penns Manor
TBone,
As a Heritage fan, what do you see happening in the future?
And I totally blanked on Blairsville, you're right about 04-05, but 06? Did they even make the playoffs that year?
As a Heritage fan, what do you see happening in the future?
And I totally blanked on Blairsville, you're right about 04-05, but 06? Did they even make the playoffs that year?
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Red and Black
- Sophomore
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- Joined: July 27th, 2009, 7:15 am
Re: Penns Manor
Ghost -
There is not the slighest chance of LV going AAA in football in the next generation, unless gold is discovered in the Laurel and Chestnut Ridges (Marcellus gas is not enough)!
If you look at the projected enrollments from the consolidation studies, enrollment is going down. Some of the combined grades in middle and elementary are only about 120 or so. Figure that at 60 boys X 3 = 180 = single-A.
And that doesn't even take into account the families that are moving their kids out of the combined LVSD public schools under various options. Many of those options will remove the students from the LV PIAA enrollment numbers in the upcoming cycle.
I predict single A in football for a combined LV no later than 2014, maybe even 2012. And they will stay at single-A a long time this time. It would be ironic if LV goes to the LHAC and then is soon the only public single-A school in that conference (or one of two with Richland.)
There is not the slighest chance of LV going AAA in football in the next generation, unless gold is discovered in the Laurel and Chestnut Ridges (Marcellus gas is not enough)!
If you look at the projected enrollments from the consolidation studies, enrollment is going down. Some of the combined grades in middle and elementary are only about 120 or so. Figure that at 60 boys X 3 = 180 = single-A.
And that doesn't even take into account the families that are moving their kids out of the combined LVSD public schools under various options. Many of those options will remove the students from the LV PIAA enrollment numbers in the upcoming cycle.
I predict single A in football for a combined LV no later than 2014, maybe even 2012. And they will stay at single-A a long time this time. It would be ironic if LV goes to the LHAC and then is soon the only public single-A school in that conference (or one of two with Richland.)
Re: Penns Manor
Ghost,
Yes you are correct. I was off by a couple of years. Blairsville made the playoffs in 02,03,04,and 05. Lost to BC in 02-04-and 05. I don't know who knocked them out in 03. I think the score in 02 was 18-6 and in 04 it was the overtime game. I can't remember the score in 05 but I believe that it was close.
As far as the future - There are a lot of questions. I believe "eventually" Blairsville and Saltsburg will combine teams. That will leave another opening in the schedule. There are rumors about Leechburg and another team coming in but it seems just like talk right now. There is also a rumor about staying with the same schedule as this year and picking up a West Pac team on a rotating basis beginning next year.
As far as the quality of play, it seems that the talent level has dropped off quite a bit in the last 5-6 years. I have no idea why or even if it is true. Maybe it is just me seeing this. The coaching staffs haven't changed a whole lot but numbers seem to be down in a lot of schools. Maybe it is just a low point in a cycle. I hope so but am not convinced.
Yes you are correct. I was off by a couple of years. Blairsville made the playoffs in 02,03,04,and 05. Lost to BC in 02-04-and 05. I don't know who knocked them out in 03. I think the score in 02 was 18-6 and in 04 it was the overtime game. I can't remember the score in 05 but I believe that it was close.
As far as the future - There are a lot of questions. I believe "eventually" Blairsville and Saltsburg will combine teams. That will leave another opening in the schedule. There are rumors about Leechburg and another team coming in but it seems just like talk right now. There is also a rumor about staying with the same schedule as this year and picking up a West Pac team on a rotating basis beginning next year.
As far as the quality of play, it seems that the talent level has dropped off quite a bit in the last 5-6 years. I have no idea why or even if it is true. Maybe it is just me seeing this. The coaching staffs haven't changed a whole lot but numbers seem to be down in a lot of schools. Maybe it is just a low point in a cycle. I hope so but am not convinced.
Re: Penns Manor
I'll take your word for it. Not the first time I was given bad info, and the stats support what you're saying.Red and Black wrote: There is not the slighest chance of LV going AAA in football in the next generation, unless gold is discovered in the Laurel and Chestnut Ridges (Marcellus gas is not enough)!
Tbone,
2002: BC 16, Blairsville 7
2003: Northern Cambria 30, Blairsville 12
2004: BC 35, Blairsville 28
2005: BC 33, Blairsville 23
Do you think they will actually consolidate? Seems like that's been looming for years but nothing's ever happened. I'd be surprised if Leechburg left the WPIAL because they have been successful in other sports and I don't think they'd move just because of football. And picking up WestPAC teams would be good for both conferences IMO.
As far as talent goes, Purchase Line had a couple of solid years before falling off the cliff. Blairsville obviously had a great couple of years but couldn't get through. I hope you're right that it's just a down cycle, but the glaring statistic to me is that United was the last team to win the district and that was 12 years ago.
Re: Penns Manor
About Blairsville/Saltsburg Consolidation. They have been talking about consolidating the remainder of the sports programs, in particular football. As far as actual consolidation of the schools, nothing is being talked about. They tried and failed. There is no way, with two new schools on each end of the district, will they close any schools. The only way that I see a possible consolidation some day is if one side became the Junior High/Middle School and the other side the HS. And that will not happen for years.
Re: Penns Manor
i believe saltsburg is getting a brand new highschool/elementary school complex to rival blairsville. i agree, the only way one school shuts down is if the other becomes the middle school. there were all kinds of lawsuits as to the make up of the school board to get it reconfigured when the board was in blairsvilles favor.
Re: Penns Manor
You act like it is a big deal winning D6 instead of just winning the conference.
I said it before, I feel bad for Portage, they won the westpac, but couldn't win a district. meanwhile in recent years, district 5 teams from the westpac were winning titles after getting stomped by portage all year.
In reality, NO ONE but Bishop Mccort, Bishop Carroll, or Bellwood Antis has won D6 class A since 2000 but windber. That was 11 years ago. Considering that year windber was good Bellwood was in AA, who knows if windber would have won it that year had Bellwood been Class A.
Two of them are all star teams, and Bellwood and Windber have always been two of the biggest class A public schools enrollment number wise. I believe Bellwood moved to the ICC in 2007 for football.
The heritage used to have a few schools that were AA off and on. Marion Center, United, Northern Cambria, Purchase Line, Ligonier Valley it seems have had years when they played AA due to co-ops and erollment size instead of class A in the last 10-15 years.
Look at AA. Purchase Line, United, and Central have a whopping 3 titles since 1990. The rest of the titles have been won by Forest Hills, Tyrone, and Bishop McCort. Forest Hills is always one of the largest AA schools. Bishop McCort is an All Star team.
Look at reality. Bellwood and Tyrone are both close to Altoona and State College where there are actually jobs within a half hour drive. Anyone that doesn't want to sent their kid to a school with 1000 boys in the upper 3 grades either lives in Bellwood or Tyrone.
I think going to 6 classifications would be a good thing for football. It's tough to come up with quality skill players/lineman to compete when your playing schools nearly double your enrollment in Class A or with 100+ more boys in AA and not everyone can bring in starters for their junior and senior years for religous reasons.
Class A
1985 Homer Center Bucktail 9-6
1986 Juniata Valley Blacklick Valley 2-0
1987 Juniata Valley Bishop Carroll 21-0
1988 West Branch Bishop McCort 14-6
1989 Laurel Valley Williamsburg 15-7 OT
1990 Laurel Valley Claysburg-Kimmel 49-15
1991 Saltsburg Bishop Guilfoyle 27-14
1992 Conemaugh Valley Laurel Valley 35-6
1993 Laurel Valley Bellwood-Antis 25-13
1994 Homer Center Bellwood-Antis 3-0
1995 Ferndale Moshannon Valley 12-0
1996 Moshannon Valley Purchase Line 34-6 Dists 5 & 6
1997 Bellwood-Antis West Branch 35-6 Dists 5 & 6
1998 Bishop Carroll Windber (5) 34-13 Dists 5 & 6
1999 Bishop Carroll Bellwood-Antis 30-20 Dists 5 & 6
2000 Windber Bishop Carroll 10-7 Dists 5 & 6
2001 Bishop Carroll Windber (5) 35-7 Dists 5 & 6
2002 Bishop Carroll Windber (5) 13-10 OT Dists 5 & 6
2003 Bishop Carroll Northern Cambris 49-14 Dists 5 & 6
2004 Bellwood-Antis Bishop Carroll 23-14
2005 Bishop Carroll Bellwood-Antis 27-10
2006 Bellwood-Antis Juniata Valley 22-8
2007 Bellwood-Antis Purchase Line 27-7
2008 Bishop McCort Portage 42-7
2009 Bishop McCort Bellwood-Antis 34-20
Class AA
1985 Bishop Guilfoyle Bellwood-Antis 21-6
1986 United Richland 27-6
1987 Bishop Guilfoyle United 14-13
1988 Bellwood-Antis United 13-12
1989 Westmont Hilltop Forest Hills 32-27
1990 Purchase Line United 27-7
1991 Forest Hills Penns Valley 23-6
1992 Forest Hills Mount Union 26-21
1993 Forest Hills Mount Union 32-7
1994 Forest Hills Westmont Hilltop 22-13
1995 Tyrone Bishop McCort 13-7
1996 Tyrone Forest Hills 32-14 Dists 5 & 6
1997 Tyrone Westmont Hilltop 42-18 Dists 5 & 6
1998 United Forest Hills 22-20 Dists 5 & 6
1999 Tyrone Forest Hills 22-8 Dists 5 & 6
2000 Tyrone Bellwood-Antis 28-3 Dists 5 & 6
2001 Bishop McCort Bellwood-Antis 21-14 Dists 5 & 6
2002 Forest Hills Bishop McCort 40-10 Dists 5 & 6
2003 Tyrone Forest Hills 31-7 Dists 5 & 6
2004 Tyrone Bishop McCort 15-6 Dists 5 & 6
2005 Forest Hills Bishop McCort 31-28 Dists 5 & 6
2006 Bishop McCort Tyrone 37-28 Dists 5 & 6
2007 Bishop McCort Central Cambria 28-21 OT Dists 5 & 6
2008 Central Central Cambria 41-6
2009 Forest Hills Tyrone 17-14
I said it before, I feel bad for Portage, they won the westpac, but couldn't win a district. meanwhile in recent years, district 5 teams from the westpac were winning titles after getting stomped by portage all year.
In reality, NO ONE but Bishop Mccort, Bishop Carroll, or Bellwood Antis has won D6 class A since 2000 but windber. That was 11 years ago. Considering that year windber was good Bellwood was in AA, who knows if windber would have won it that year had Bellwood been Class A.
Two of them are all star teams, and Bellwood and Windber have always been two of the biggest class A public schools enrollment number wise. I believe Bellwood moved to the ICC in 2007 for football.
The heritage used to have a few schools that were AA off and on. Marion Center, United, Northern Cambria, Purchase Line, Ligonier Valley it seems have had years when they played AA due to co-ops and erollment size instead of class A in the last 10-15 years.
Look at AA. Purchase Line, United, and Central have a whopping 3 titles since 1990. The rest of the titles have been won by Forest Hills, Tyrone, and Bishop McCort. Forest Hills is always one of the largest AA schools. Bishop McCort is an All Star team.
Look at reality. Bellwood and Tyrone are both close to Altoona and State College where there are actually jobs within a half hour drive. Anyone that doesn't want to sent their kid to a school with 1000 boys in the upper 3 grades either lives in Bellwood or Tyrone.
I think going to 6 classifications would be a good thing for football. It's tough to come up with quality skill players/lineman to compete when your playing schools nearly double your enrollment in Class A or with 100+ more boys in AA and not everyone can bring in starters for their junior and senior years for religous reasons.
Class A
1985 Homer Center Bucktail 9-6
1986 Juniata Valley Blacklick Valley 2-0
1987 Juniata Valley Bishop Carroll 21-0
1988 West Branch Bishop McCort 14-6
1989 Laurel Valley Williamsburg 15-7 OT
1990 Laurel Valley Claysburg-Kimmel 49-15
1991 Saltsburg Bishop Guilfoyle 27-14
1992 Conemaugh Valley Laurel Valley 35-6
1993 Laurel Valley Bellwood-Antis 25-13
1994 Homer Center Bellwood-Antis 3-0
1995 Ferndale Moshannon Valley 12-0
1996 Moshannon Valley Purchase Line 34-6 Dists 5 & 6
1997 Bellwood-Antis West Branch 35-6 Dists 5 & 6
1998 Bishop Carroll Windber (5) 34-13 Dists 5 & 6
1999 Bishop Carroll Bellwood-Antis 30-20 Dists 5 & 6
2000 Windber Bishop Carroll 10-7 Dists 5 & 6
2001 Bishop Carroll Windber (5) 35-7 Dists 5 & 6
2002 Bishop Carroll Windber (5) 13-10 OT Dists 5 & 6
2003 Bishop Carroll Northern Cambris 49-14 Dists 5 & 6
2004 Bellwood-Antis Bishop Carroll 23-14
2005 Bishop Carroll Bellwood-Antis 27-10
2006 Bellwood-Antis Juniata Valley 22-8
2007 Bellwood-Antis Purchase Line 27-7
2008 Bishop McCort Portage 42-7
2009 Bishop McCort Bellwood-Antis 34-20
Class AA
1985 Bishop Guilfoyle Bellwood-Antis 21-6
1986 United Richland 27-6
1987 Bishop Guilfoyle United 14-13
1988 Bellwood-Antis United 13-12
1989 Westmont Hilltop Forest Hills 32-27
1990 Purchase Line United 27-7
1991 Forest Hills Penns Valley 23-6
1992 Forest Hills Mount Union 26-21
1993 Forest Hills Mount Union 32-7
1994 Forest Hills Westmont Hilltop 22-13
1995 Tyrone Bishop McCort 13-7
1996 Tyrone Forest Hills 32-14 Dists 5 & 6
1997 Tyrone Westmont Hilltop 42-18 Dists 5 & 6
1998 United Forest Hills 22-20 Dists 5 & 6
1999 Tyrone Forest Hills 22-8 Dists 5 & 6
2000 Tyrone Bellwood-Antis 28-3 Dists 5 & 6
2001 Bishop McCort Bellwood-Antis 21-14 Dists 5 & 6
2002 Forest Hills Bishop McCort 40-10 Dists 5 & 6
2003 Tyrone Forest Hills 31-7 Dists 5 & 6
2004 Tyrone Bishop McCort 15-6 Dists 5 & 6
2005 Forest Hills Bishop McCort 31-28 Dists 5 & 6
2006 Bishop McCort Tyrone 37-28 Dists 5 & 6
2007 Bishop McCort Central Cambria 28-21 OT Dists 5 & 6
2008 Central Central Cambria 41-6
2009 Forest Hills Tyrone 17-14
Re: Penns Manor
Winning D6 is a bigger deal than just winning the conference!
Bellwood would have still beaten Portage in 2008 finals if they had made it instead of McCort. I have no reason to feel bad for Portage whenever they ran over everyone during the regular season and then didn't get it done in the playoffs.
I don't buy the enrollment numbers argument. Look at General McLane in 2006, they were something like two boys over the AA limit and won both the football and basketball state championships. And I hadn't pegged you as a private school basher, but what's McCort's excuse from 2002 and 2004-2005 where they were in the title game but lost to public schools? If you think the schools around here are the only ones that attract kids go east. It's more blatant and done without hesitation. You think all those Southern Columbia or Berwick kids were homegrown? Get real. Kids transfer in the WPIAL, get denied and then the PIAA overturns it. Pretty simple.
There would be about 100 schools in each classification. That would water everything down more than people realize. I also think it won't happen because the WPIAL won't move the championships from Heinz for anything and the PIAA doesn't want them to withdraw from the state athletic system.
Bellwood would have still beaten Portage in 2008 finals if they had made it instead of McCort. I have no reason to feel bad for Portage whenever they ran over everyone during the regular season and then didn't get it done in the playoffs.
I don't buy the enrollment numbers argument. Look at General McLane in 2006, they were something like two boys over the AA limit and won both the football and basketball state championships. And I hadn't pegged you as a private school basher, but what's McCort's excuse from 2002 and 2004-2005 where they were in the title game but lost to public schools? If you think the schools around here are the only ones that attract kids go east. It's more blatant and done without hesitation. You think all those Southern Columbia or Berwick kids were homegrown? Get real. Kids transfer in the WPIAL, get denied and then the PIAA overturns it. Pretty simple.
There would be about 100 schools in each classification. That would water everything down more than people realize. I also think it won't happen because the WPIAL won't move the championships from Heinz for anything and the PIAA doesn't want them to withdraw from the state athletic system.
Re: Penns Manor
yes, I agree the district is a bigger deal but the whole point of my post was because of all the bashing going on about conference titles not meaning anything, needing to play better competition, etc. many of these smaller schools have the same athletes playing all sports or the athletes choose one sport to focus on out of Football, Basketball, baseball/track. Even Saltsburg who has been a doormat for football for 10-20 years has a few Basketball District championships.
ps. yes, i have always been a private school basher.
ps. yes, i have always been a private school basher.
Re: Penns Manor
what i wonder is how healthy was ferens going into the BC GAME .