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athens, if psycho is referring to the voucher system for kids that go to poor performing schools to go to private schools here is an article on it: http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/co ... ool_1.html

i am sure all of the private bashers on here will have a great time with this one!!! but come on you sourpusses it makes the state one heck of a football machine and will be potentially helping 60,000 kids! cant really blame the privates for this one. its public funded!

Getting back to Alkwan, I personally don't care what everyone INFERS from my posts. I did not start this topic. Here's how it all went down:
....Richland-Fan brought up the Williams subject.
....semantics called it a case of "oversigning".
....Crimson's Ghost called him on it and said he was WRONG.
....I then ask what the reason might have been.
....Kobeballs retaliates by calling Pitt's coach an a**, and says Pitt's program is a joke.
....I therefore ask again, why was Williams' scholarship pulled.
....Then all Hell breaks loose. Now everyone claims I'm looking for a conspiracy or scandal. Is there one???? You tell me. That's why I asked. Got to be a reason he was left go. And you're telling me no one on this site knows for sure??? And then everyone gets all huffy and puffy because questions are raised. Hey, inquiring minds want to know. sportsfan and JD are the first to jump on me. Typical, isn't it? Just answer the question or stay quiet. Don't kill the messenger.

Points all valid and I agree, Western Pennsylvania is not as good as it once was top to bottom, but the top is pretty dang good.

For example....Looking at the top recruits from the WPIAL this season....

Rushel Shell RB (Hopewell)... Alabama, Auburn,Colorado,Florida,Georgia,Ohio State,Tennessee,and UCLA......5 SEC teams!! Signed with Pitt.
Adam Bisnowaty OT (Fox Chapel)....Florida, Michigan, Michigan State,Purdue,Virginia....Signed with Pitt.
Greg Garmon RB (McDowell)....Texas A&M,Tennessee,Ohio State, UNC,Michigan,Miami,Florida State, Arkansas. Signed with Iowa
Deaysean Rippy LB (Sto Rox)....Alabama,Arizona,Auburn,Colorado,Florida,Iowa,Maryland,Nebraska,Ohio State, USC....Signed with Pitt.
Demetrious Cox S (Jeannette)....Wisconsin,Notre Dame,Ohio State,Iowa.....Signed with Michigan State.

So what the hell difference does it make WVU, PSU, and OSU didn't sign one player from Western PA this season? They offered all the good ones(listed above) but they also offered more then just those five, they chose to play elsewhere, that doesn't point out a lack of talent, points out that they didn't win any recruiting battles. Thats all.

And looking ahead to next season
Central Valley WR, Robert Foster is without a doubt a top 10 talent with offers from Oregon, Ohio State, and the whole SEC.
North Allegheny OT, Patrick Kugler is sitting on close to 30 offers from everywhere.

I can bet all the money in the world, OSU will have to rent an apartment near Central Valley HS next season because they will be all over Foster. If Pitt gets that kid, HUGE recruiting win. It would be the equivalent if Pryor chose Pitt over OSU.......Obviously OSU offered him a better contract.



The WPIAL is down, no doubt, and I get some criticism for saying that on the Pitt boards, but you can still find very elite talent right here in Pennsylvania, and with close roads to Ohio and New Jersey you can be very freaking successful at Pitt if you do it right. Todd Graham did not leave for that reason, you are blind if you think that. He left because he hated the North and never wanted to be here and he is a snake.

PA is now #14 or 15 as far as D1 signees is concerned. In addition to states Texas, Caifornia, Florida and Georgia, eaglealum forgot to mention Ohio, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, and New Jersey which have all surpassed PA in D1 signees.

Western PA in particular is a shell of what it was. when I was a sr in high school the ALL WEST conference had 16 D1 signees alone. JHS had 4 , Meckkespor has 4, Altoona a couple, then Penn Hills, West Mifflin, etc.....And the ALL WEST was one of maybe 10 WPIAL conferences. Then to that you'd add the tough Pittsburgh Catholic League and then the few D1 signees from what are today the LHAC and Westpac type schools. These schools had few D1 kids but produced some absolutely terrific athletes in the day.

Athenscat, the way vouchers work in Ohio is that "economically disadvantaged" families get vouchers to send their kids to the school OF THEIR CHOICE. As a result kids are fleeing the public schools in Ohio and the Catholic schools are busting at the seams. The cincinnati Catholic schools Elder, ST X and Moeller have their highest enrollments ever and many Catholic schools are adding to and updating their physical plants. It is amazing what can happen when you throw together a little competition and discipline in an environment where trophys are not handed out for showing up ---- you get kids who are challenged by teachers and coaches who can teach and coach and are held accountable.

PA has proposed a similar, albeit somewhat watered down voucher plan that is not being supported by any local union controlled state politician.

Shell the RB outta Hopewell WOULD have been Alabama bound but his g'f is/was(not sure when she is due) preggo with twins so he was sorta trapped to stay near to home.

psycho wrote:PA is now #14 or 15 as far as D1 signees is concerned. In addition to states Texas, Caifornia, Florida and Georgia, eaglealum forgot to mention Ohio, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, and New Jersey which have all surpassed PA in D1 signees.

Western PA in particular is a shell of what it was. when I was a sr in high school the ALL WEST conference had 16 D1 signees alone. JHS had 4 , Meckkespor has 4, Altoona a couple, then Penn Hills, West Mifflin, etc.....And the ALL WEST was one of maybe 10 WPIAL conferences. Then to that you'd add the tough Pittsburgh Catholic League and then the few D1 signees from what are today the LHAC and Westpac type schools. These schools had few D1 kids but produced some absolutely terrific athletes in the day.

Athenscat, the way vouchers work in Ohio is that "economically disadvantaged" families get vouchers to send their kids to the school OF THEIR CHOICE. As a result kids are fleeing the public schools in Ohio and the Catholic schools are busting at the seams. The cincinnati Catholic schools Elder, ST X and Moeller have their highest enrollments ever and many Catholic schools are adding to and updating their physical plants. It is amazing what can happen when you throw together a little competition and discipline in an environment where trophys are not handed out for showing up ---- you get kids who are challenged by teachers and coaches who can teach and coach and are held accountable.

PA has proposed a similar, albeit somewhat watered down voucher plan that is not being supported by any local union controlled state politician.

Does the ohio bill hold private schools that receive state tax dollars accountable in the same way the state holds public schools accountable? Do they have to follow the same mandates, requirements, and state test performance standards as public schools? Are they required to accept all students with vouchers? Even those with special needs and learning disability students? Can they still pick and chose who they want in their school even though they get state tax dollars.

If the answers to the above questions are no which I think they are then this isn't fair or level competition between public and private schools. What other entity gets a blank check in the form of tax dollars from the state gov't and doesn't have to adhere to any state guidelines or requirements. Sure some businesses get grants from the state but there are strings attached, some get loans with no strings but you got to pay the loan back. What are the private schools required by the state to do get this voucher money in Ohio.

Im not a union cheerleader by any stretch on this issue. Public schools have problems no doubt mainly caused by two things a state gov't mandate system that coddles kids and lets parents be irresponsible and a teachers union that is narrow minded and implacable. The solution is not to transfer billions of state tax dollars to organization who is broke from paying out billions in child molestation cases and the state not even having oversight on how that money is spent.

For a voucher system to be a true barometer of who educates the best private schools need to be held to the same standards as public schools. Or let public schools operate with the same standards as private schools do.

Comparing eras is an inexact science. The primary reason that Western PA's football dominance has dropped is because its population has steadily declined by 30% in the past fifty years. In addition, the population has also aged rapidly as younger generations have migrated elsewhere for work. The impact of sports specialization is also a topic that must be considered in any comparative discussion of the eras. Once again, I'll reiterate that revamping the public school system for the sake of more competitive high school football is not in the public's best interest.

As far as the Williams kid, sounds like he was a victim of numbers. I wish him all of the best. Temple is a great academic institution.

say_oww wrote: The primary reason that Western PA's football dominance has dropped is because its population has steadily declined by 30% in the past fifty years. In addition, the population has also aged rapidly as younger generations have migrated elsewhere for work.

but that is exactly what happened in Northeastern Ohio as someone pointed out.

Crimson's Ghost wrote:Points all valid and I agree, Western Pennsylvania is not as good as it once was top to bottom, but the top is pretty dang good.

For example....Looking at the top recruits from the WPIAL this season....

Rushel Shell RB (Hopewell)... Alabama, Auburn,Colorado,Florida,Georgia,Ohio State,Tennessee,and UCLA......5 SEC teams!! Signed with Pitt.
Adam Bisnowaty OT (Fox Chapel)....Florida, Michigan, Michigan State,Purdue,Virginia....Signed with Pitt.
Greg Garmon RB (McDowell)....Texas A&M,Tennessee,Ohio State, UNC,Michigan,Miami,Florida State, Arkansas. Signed with Iowa
Deaysean Rippy LB (Sto Rox)....Alabama,Arizona,Auburn,Colorado,Florida,Iowa,Maryland,Nebraska,Ohio State, USC....Signed with Pitt.
Demetrious Cox S (Jeannette)....Wisconsin,Notre Dame,Ohio State,Iowa.....Signed with Michigan State.

So what the hell difference does it make WVU, PSU, and OSU didn't sign one player from Western PA this season? They offered all the good ones(listed above) but they also offered more then just those five, they chose to play elsewhere, that doesn't point out a lack of talent, points out that they didn't win any recruiting battles. Thats all.

And looking ahead to next season
Central Valley WR, Robert Foster is without a doubt a top 10 talent with offers from Oregon, Ohio State, and the whole SEC.
North Allegheny OT, Patrick Kugler is sitting on close to 30 offers from everywhere.

I can bet all the money in the world, OSU will have to rent an apartment near Central Valley HS next season because they will be all over Foster. If Pitt gets that kid, HUGE recruiting win. It would be the equivalent if Pryor chose Pitt over OSU.......Obviously OSU offered him a better contract.



The WPIAL is down, no doubt, and I get some criticism for saying that on the Pitt boards, but you can still find very elite talent right here in Pennsylvania, and with close roads to Ohio and New Jersey you can be very freaking successful at Pitt if you do it right. Todd Graham did not leave for that reason, you are blind if you think that. He left because he hated the North and never wanted to be here and he is a snake.

but you think think ohio state, who recruits nationally, or west virginia, who recruits very effectively in say florida, would be that hurt by Foster not signing with them? Yeah, he would be a good sign no doubt ,but seriously ohio state or west virginia can find a player like this somewhere else. Pitt shoul get this kid his is a hometown kid that looks terrible when another school picks your elite talent especially when there are so few left.

I find it amusing that we (myself included) bash this part of the state yet love it at the same time wanting nothing more than to see it improve. I'm sure I can speak for others on here as well in that we have some blind faith that things CAN improve. The problem lies with the top administration in charge of the most crucial issues who seem to be content with the status quo and those that support it. What do these people see when they see how progressive other states in similar situations have become? Make no mistake we still have some great coaches in D6 who know how to compete, but sometimes they aren't left with many options because of non-sense that leaves us stuck in the past. I was reading a history of johnstown book the other day and it was interesting to see how this endless bickering has plagued our town. Quite the metaphor for the position our 'piss ant' schools find themselves in.