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Morpheus,I wasn't a lifelong wrestler,but I did wrestle for 6 years,and I'd probably be one of the couple guys that "didn't make the cut" if I wrestled today.Matter of fact,I was one of those guys that had to beat out 2 other guys just to wrestle JV in the 80's.My support of the reduction of weights doesn't hang on how it affects my school(it would benefit us THIS year),I was looking at the long term.And at the sport of wrestling in general.Your opinion is yours and I respect that,and for what it's worth,it seems relatively well-thought out.As far as the weight cutting you talked about,it "ain't supposed to happen",but it does,and it happens everywhere not just at a couple programs.And that is the part of wrestling and the mindset I hate about it.P.S.-That sickly looking kid you refered to has the same build as his way too skinny sisters and mom,it's hereditary not brought on.By the way,he got an 8th place medal at Hershey.

we have listened to you....do you listen to anyone else??? if, someday, you are in a position to coach and lead, then your perspective may change....I know mine has changed over the years.....but this is a forum for discussion, not arguments....it's not much of a discussion if everyone agrees on everything...however, we all have the right to our opinions based on our experiences....let's talk again in 10 years after you've had the opportunity to give more to the sport than just your personal wins and an occasional ticket to watch....this is my challenge to you....and not just popping in and working out now and then....I'm talking true leadership in which you are responsible for the success and failures of young men (or women)....a situation in which you are responsible for the development of the person, not just the athlete....

something like Coach Packer tried to do with you....I think he does an excellent job at developing young people....and, to Coach Packer, it's more than just about winning...and winning is more than a glorious record....

once again, attack and complain about me all you like. you have no idea what point i was tryin to make in teh first place, but obviously feel better about yourself by whining about me. save me the trouble of the 10 years down the road speech, cause i honetly will tell you i have no intentions of coaching. ill will be the first to tell you i do not have the patience or knowledge to do so. and you can try to make me feel like i am some sort of failure in coach's eyes, i know im not.

No, you have also missed my point, and the point of others... there is no desire to attack your point of view, or attack your record as a wrestler...it is simply to give other points of view....we state ours as opinions....you tend to state yours as facts....it is not personal....this is simply an exchange of ideas....

but you have forced me to think more about the weight class reductions....I would hate to see fewer opportunities for the masses....I don't want the sport to die because we cater to only the quality and dedicated individuals...in all competition, someone will win and someone will lose....but winning doesn't make one a winner, and losing doesn't make one a loser....life is the game that must be played the right way....sports just provides lessons along the way...

its nothing personal, but i can see that we are both misinterpreting each others views without inflection of voice and emphasis that is lacking in type written responses. i am not trying to state anything as fact, it is only my mere opinion, just as anyone elses. i understand, and agree that wrestling is more than just winning, i must have come off wrong. i just do not agree with the number of weight classes. few teams can fill them as it is, and having so many competitors and matches causes the sport to lose fans that are not hardcore. "its takes too long, i dont wnat to waste my entire day" is a common response i get when i ask if someone will go to a tournament with me. they gym was almost empty all day during the first rounds this past year in districts, and it saddens me becaue it didnt use to be that way. thats all im sayin, and if anyone misunderstood me, or was offended, i apologize. that wasnt me intenion.

ok, those are ideas that help me understand where you are coming from.....but, being an old guy, I've lived through these kinds of problems for years....some areas are hotbeds for wrestling, some aren't....I believe the crowds that were at districts on Saturday more than make up for Friday...some people work on Friday...some just don't want to fight the crowds for the seating until the end....many factors go into this...

but, you have given specific points that are ones to consider...thanks...

I just do not understand the logic that weight class reductions make wrestling better. Consider some examples from other sports.

Let’s say a small AA school can only get eight or ten guys out for basketball, but a larger AA school or maybe most AAA schools can get 15 or 20 guys out. Who is likely to have the better team? Probably the school with more guys, because they have more depth. So, do we change the rules for playing basketball and, instead of playing 5 on 5, we make it 3 on 3, just because some schools can’t get enough participation to be competitive? No!

How about football? Anyone clamoring for 7 on 7 football because some small schools are lucky to get 30 guys out when larger schools get 60 or more? No. Would that help the sport to do this? Probably not, because the larger schools would still have a larger talent pool to get their seven guys and would still dominate the smaller schools. But even if that wasn’t the case, why is the PIAA not pushing these changes to help the small schools in football, but is pushing weight class reduction for wrestling?

However, maybe basketball and football, being more team sports, are not the best examples. How about track & field, or swimming, or gymnastics? If a small school gets 10 guys out for track, but a larger school gets 25 guys out, do we eliminate certain events to make the overall team event more even? “Oh, since school X doesn’t have enough guys, we just won’t run the 100m dash or do the long jump any more.” No!

Track, swimming, and gymnastics are more about individual success than about team success, even though team scores are kept. Let’s say small school X has 10 guys, and those 10 guys take first place in 10 track events, but larger school Y takes first place in all of the remaining track events, plus wins all seconds and thirds because of their superior depth. Who wins the team score? Probably large school Y. Does that mean that school X is a failure? No! They have had significant individual success and may well continue to have such individual success right up to winning individual state championships.

Are there are schools with swimming or track programs that can’t get three or more participants in each event, thereby automatically giving up team points simply because they cannot fill the lanes (just like forfeiting a weight class in wrestling)? Yes, there absolutely are, and those same schools routinely lose team events (although still having individual success). However, the PIAA is not pushing to have certain events eliminated from those sports, so why is it doing it for wrestling?

Team scores have meaning in track, swimming, and gymnastics, but they are not the only meaning in these sports, nor even the most important meaning. The same is true for wrestling.

The point here is that the PIAA and many others out there are simply missing the point entirely. Yes, team scores are kept, but team scores are not the only factor. Individual success has always been the primary focus. Teams that consistently lose by team score but which still have good individuals are not failures. They are winners!

I know of a small school that, year after year, routinely forfeits anywhere from three to six weights in every dual meet because they don’t have enough kids to fill the roster. Over this school’s history, they typically have won about 50% of their duals (because they have good individuals to make up for the forfeits), but some years win less than a 1/3 of them. Yet, this same small school has produced 25 district champions, 14 state place winners, and 4 state champions over the past 20 years. That is better than many large schools with full rosters can boast!

Is that small high school a success or a failure? I would call them a success, despite their team scores and record.

We should be thinking of ways to get as many individual kids involved in wrestling as possible, not thinking of ways to exclude them by eliminating opportunities through reducing the number of weight classes. If we allow a reduction in weight classes at the varsity level now, the next logical step will be to reduce the number of junior high weights, and then reduce the elementary weights, until only an elite few will ever have the chance to participate in high school wrestling. Wait and see – it will only take a few years until that happens. It is the next logical step. When this process begins to happen, more and more schools will not be able to justify the cost of a sport with so few participants, but by then it will be too late, because the whole infrastructure will be destroyed. The sport will be lost.

This whole thing about reducing weight classes is just wrong. If anything, we should all be trying to add weight classes, not eliminate them. That would truly help the sport. Reducing weight classes is the first nail in the coffin for wrestling as a high school sport.

Good points....interesting way to look at it, comparing to other, more individualistic sports....

D9,
You make some very good points,and you may be right.I'll be the first to admit I'm not always right.But I believe the 1st nail in the coffin was the switch to "timeout parenting" and "if my baby isn't good enough,he/she shouldn't do it".Those people,who may be great people that love their kids,have taken a toll on most activities kids participate in.Over the last 10 to 20 years,most sports have taken a hit in numbers.And the main culprit is that manner of thinking.If kids can't be a starter,or a star,JV is just beneath them,so they quit.Just less than 15 years ago,kids took pride in being on the team,now they could care less unless they are getting in,playing,or starting.What does that teach children?If it's too tough just quit.That is probably the main reason I favor the weight reduction.It may be idealistic,and not realistic,but that's the way I figure it.I won't cave to that way of thinking.Some people blame 4 wheelers,ninetendos,etc.---bull##$t.It starts at home.Coaches and teachers are just that,coaches and teachers,they shouldn't have to be parents and babysitters too.

Eaglealum....In my humble opinion we have no one to thank but AYSO soccer for this turn of events.....

EVERY KID PLAYS EQUAL TIME
DO NOT KEEP STATS
NO CHAMPIONSHIP
NO ALL STAR TEAM
EVERY ONE IS EQUAL
SOME LEAGUES DO NOT EVEN KEEP SCORE


SORRY BUT WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE....WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD