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I certainly agree that the Iraqi people deserve humane treatment, as do all people (even the gays.....gasp!). So as a true humanitarian nation, who will we invade and straighten out next? Certainly there are other mistreated people throughout the world that we can fix. But let's face it, we DIDN'T go there for humanitarian reasons.....we're just trying to paint a humanitarian picture on it.

My concern is that the US will have to keep a permanent presence in Iraq if we want it remain a democracy. Didn't South Vietnam fall to the communists as soon as the US soldiers left? I would guess that the extremists will move right in after the US leaves Iraq.

LP, do you really think George 41 would have taken the trouble to remove Saddam and not remove his sons? Certainly you would have more faith in a republican president?

I think we got pretty lucky to nail both those animals with one missle strike. I don't think getting 3 for 3 was planned for, but worked out rather nicely this time. I don't think 41 thought it would be achievable then either.

this is long i know... but i found it interesting...




Last week, the Shelby County (Alabama) Legislative Delegation hosted a "Stand Up for America Rally." More than 1,200 people attended including featured speakers Chief Justice Roy Moore, Adjutant General Mark Bowen and State Auditor Beth Chapman. Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which resulted in five standing ovations, tremendous applause and an encore.
_________________________________________
Stand Up for America Rally Speech By: Beth Chapman

I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.

If my memory serves ! me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy.

Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden.

I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion? They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn.

The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as "human shields" for the Iraqis. I say let ! them buy a one-way ticket and go.

No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war-innocent people have lost their lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son.

On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor. On September 11, 2001; there are no photos of movie stars standing as "human shields" against the debris and falling bodies descending from the World Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.

When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship - - where were the human shields then? If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets. If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity who epitomize courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding!

Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and women who hated war too. However, they lay down their lives so that we all may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend," or in this case a country.

We should give our military honor and acknowledgement and not let their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield - they WERE human shields.

I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past - - those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future.

America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained silent too long! We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may
hold.

After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son said terrorism is a war against us and them and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them.

So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families and our country.

May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth!

Amen

Iraq may be better off, but if we're gonna go force democracy upon the whole world, we still have a long ways to go. There's Cuba, Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia still, as well as numerous African countries. Last I heard, we have made no move towards freeing any of those nations. Oh, and how could I have forgotten China. But anyways, since that is the case, do you really think we went over there to free the Iraqis, when we are not freeing anybody else?

Yes, that is true, that for one prisoner the cost of putting them to death does exceed the cost of life in prison. I already knew that. Much of that has to do with the fact that anybody on death row is allowed to completely exhaust the appeals process, and I would imagine that they normally would. After all, they have nothing left to lose.
But, my point wasn't about just one person. My point was that the prisons are overcrowded, and putting people that can be rehabilitated to death is probably easier and less costly than building new prisons. So, if America has a prison overcrowding problem, and we need more prisons to hold those who commit serious crimes for any reasonable length of time, how many millions does it cost, to build, say 10 medium security prisons anywhere, using the cheapest possible materials that would deliver results? I don't know, but it's still going to be a lot of money, and money that voters don't want to give.


Permisson, by not voting, you are letting those people take your tax dollars without letting you have a say in the matter. And they honestly don't care if they rob you blind if you aren't going to vote. Sad but true. Yeah, they might address your grievances because you're human, but they probably would care more about the ACLU saying something than yourself.
The people less than 18 in this country may not vote, but they also can't serve in the military, drink, own firearms, or work at the job of their choice (in many states they aren't allowed to operate meat slicers for a business). Essentially, in the government's mind, 17 year olds are children, and 18 is the "magic" number. People under 18 also (in general) don't have to pay as many taxes since the most they work is a part time job. Yeah, they still get an income tax and social security taken off that, but they can get it back when they file for a tax return. Also, if they go to school during the week, I don't believe they are allowed to work 40 hours either. But I'm sure you get my point by now.

These are not my words.. This was forwarded to me....

Subject: A special letter from a NEW YORKER

Subj: Fwd: An explanation of a vote for Kerry

This letter that was written by a fellow NY'er is so close to my feelings that I
thought I'd share it with you guys.
Anna

======================================

I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle

of the country -- the people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this
letter because I don't think we know each other.

So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John Kerry. I used
to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I
used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there, I would vote for
Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions.

Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think you know me
already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W.
Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's
reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even
evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.

Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a “liberal” - - the
dreaded “L” word - - and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil,
immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still
curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I
watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I
couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend
who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He
will never be the same. How many people like him do you know? People that can't
sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which the
government told us is a “target” of terrorism. Later, we found out they were
relaying very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me
bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing
dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or
exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any
weapons. How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside
your office?

I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children. My
husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband
should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him,
“Those are our daddy's tools.” How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How
often do you fill in for their dead loved ones?

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents.
My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through
graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the
privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week,
every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely
leave before 9 p.m. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner
at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At
some point in the future, we will have to pay much more - - once this country
faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the
areas of the country that supported Kerry - - New York, California, Illinois,
Massachusetts - - they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax
base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute
to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you
pay for?

I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for living in
Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me tell you how I
see the world: I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I
think we should try to get along with other nations. I see that gay people
exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the
same as other people. I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their
own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their
bodies. I see that people have awful diseases.

Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them. I see that
we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there
were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me. It seems so
pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against
gay marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that
people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not care about
the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you really have
supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more
of our money on health care, job training, terrorism preparedness?

I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love my home
more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first
went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my mom and dad took
me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee
Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln
Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my
political opponents as much I do.

I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and
that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism
preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work
in a skyscraper across the street from a “target.” I have emergency supplies and
a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case something happens while I'm at
work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to
blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make
sure everything is okay? When you hear an airplane, do you flinch? Do you dread
beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who
doesn't spend the month of September on tip-toes, superstitiously praying for
rain so we don't have to relive that beautiful, blue-skied day.

I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and
further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I feel alienated
from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking. You
voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of
the entire world. You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to
plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing
into the hands of terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape
into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted
for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't
want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their
destinies. I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not
enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the
guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order
to persuade us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed when our president
lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.) Why did you
elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or
international cooperation? Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run
away and hide on September 11?

Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive
this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children,
that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in a backyard of my own. I am
afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured
roast at a retirement party in 2035 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and
my colleagues, as we sit sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary
afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified?

I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if
anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know
that.

Cry me a river.

move to the cove and take over for Edgar Snyder...

Oh my, where to start with Lemmy's post from the New York liberal mad at the rest of the country for voting for George Bush. But, here goes:

You're right, we don't know each other. However, I never suspected that all liberals are anti-American anarchist, immoral and anti-family. But, I do believe guys like Michael Moore are and the far left has basically accepted him as their spokesperson. What are the rest of us to think?

You support a women's reproduction "freedom". Never once in this letter did you think to support the innocent human lives that are lost because having a child would be inconvienent to one's career or because the woman didn't take her sexual relations serious enough.

I too shed a tear for every person effected by the tragedy of those malicious attacks. Even living in PA, I too knew someone that was in the towers that day, was lucky enough to be 10 floors below where the 2nd plane hit, and narrowly escaped with his life. Had he listened to the authorities that day, he most likely would've been killed as well. But he and others started to evacuate before the 2nd plane hit and was half way down the stairs when it did. He had the presence of mind to not use the elevators. He helped a lady with a broken leg get out, he helped the fireman carry oxygen tanks up stairs, until he was told he had to leave the building. You may have read his story in the Johnstown Trib.

You say you're scared, but yet you complain about long lines for security checks and bomb sniffing dogs on the subway. You blame the administration for giving you old information. Where did you get the source of that news report. The information was relayed to the public when it was discovered. What should they have done, nothing? Isn't that what the previous administration did for 8 years and left us vulnerable? Yet, you find no fault in that.

I too am a taxpayer. I paid a lot in taxes last year, but not nearly as much you. Does that give you more rights than me? I also received tax breaks because of our President and paid less in taxes than the year before, but made about the same. You did too.

I don't eat dinner in my office and I don't work 12 hours most days, only when it's absolutely necessary. Then, I'll work 24 hours straight if needed, and I've done that several times. I feel that spending time with my family is much more important than my career. Maybe that will cost me a promotion some day, but my family is more important.

You say that New York, California, Illinois, & Massachusetts are the tax base of this county. If money was not your motivating factor in life, maybe you would make the same decision lots of Americans are now making. Move out of the big cities and live in a more family orientated area. You'll make less money, but you'll probably be happier. I made that decision a long time ago, and while I make a lot less money, I couldn't be happier with that choice.

I see America as a nation that has been hated long before these terrorist strikes. We are prosperous and have a lot more liberties than most countries. Why should we have to get a "hall pass" from countries like France to defend ourselves? France does not have our best interests in mind, they have France's. Why is that they have protested this war so much? Could it be because of the fraud going on with them and the UN on the oil for food program? Did that thought ever cross your mind?

I have visted New York city several times for business, and let me tell you what I saw. I saw people living on the streets. I saw trash everywhere. It stunk everywhere I went. Crime is high. And guess what, this was all during the Clinton years. Did I blame Clinton? No, but maybe you should have. And you people can't drive without honking your horns 24 hours a day.

I gather from your letter that just because you live in New York, your vote should count more. Why is that? Why are you more important than the people in Kansas? Do you get this feeling because of the decades of Democrats teaching you that YOU are entitled to government hand outs?

We did not alienate our friends, they alienated us. But you can't see that. Which nation was there to bail out some of these countries 60 years ago? And when we needed them to stand tall with us, they cowered in the corner. They negioate with terrorists. What will that get them in the future?

The man I voted for didn't start a war for no reason. He went to war with Iraq because the intelligence he had suggested we were in danger. I seem to recall that the man you voted for felt the same way at the same time. Either way, a brutal dictator that murdered his citizens, had rape rooms, and tortured and killed anyone that disagreed with him was removed from power. Why is that a bad thing?

The man I voted for didn't "let" bin Laden escape. He is still being hunted down. However, the man you voted for twice before (Clinton) had several opportunities to eliminate him, and he failed to act. Had he acted when he had the chance, Sept. 11 may never have happened. But you fail to see, or believe that.

The man I voted for has never said people couldn't love who they want to love. But he did take a stance to say that homosexuals should not marry, and I couldn't agree with him more. The man I voted for never said doctors couldn't cure patients, he just said that MY tax dollars are not going to fund a very controversial research project. Stem cell research kills a human in my beliefs, but that unborn child is less important to you than it is to me. These are my beliefs, yet because you live in New York, you feel I should think more like you. Why do I have to have the same beliefs as you?

You make the accusation that President Bush ran away and hid on Sept 11. Do you also fault generals in the military for not being on the front lines? It doesn't matter who the President is, they would be hid away in an event like that, and that's a good idea. How do you think our nation would have reacted if our leaders were killed? Don't you think that terrorists would have won if that had happened?

You say you're afraid you'll never have children. Is that our Presidents fault, or is it your fault that you chose to put your career ahead of having children? I don't fault you for that, but don't blame others to make yoursef feel better.

I think I do realize what has happened. I think 60 million Americans stood up and said ENOUGH! No more throwing it in everyone's face that homosexuals should marry. No more sitting back and doing nothing when we are attacked. Nations that are a threat to us had better back off, because this man has proven that he will do everything he can to protect us.

Blame me all you want, I don't care. I do realize what I've done. I voted for a man with principals. A man that sticks by his decisions and does everything he can to protect us. I'm proud of my vote. I wanted you to know that.

And while we're at it, I blame you for worrying more about how the stock market was doing and not more about our national security in the 90's. I blame you for the decaying moral fibers in our country. I blame you because kids today cannot thank God during the graduation, can't even mention God in public school even though they believe in God. I blame you for trying to take my religion away from me in every aspect of society so that one person in 1,000 isn't "offended". And I blame you for the brutal killing of 4,000 babies every single day in our country, so that you can have "freedom" of your reproductive system.