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Re: Simply the Best

Posted: March 7th, 2007, 7:10 am
by once a runner
The NCAA basketball tournament has 65 teams for the same reason there are 30+ bowl games.....money. However, at least basketball gives the underdogs a chance. If the field was only chosen among the top 16, then the tournament would have never seen some of the great runs by underdogs.

NC State in '83 and Kansas in '88 were 6 seeds while Villanova in '85 was an 8 seed. Those teams would never have been invited with a smaller field and they were 3 of the greatest runs a team has taken to a championship. Even if a George Mason (an 11 seed from last year) fails to win, making the Final 4 was an incredible accomplishment. It's much more memorable than who won the Pacific Life Holiday bowl game.

Re: Simply the Best

Posted: March 7th, 2007, 9:14 am
by The Ancient Enemy
So 4 teams in 24 years? One out of six times, an under-dog wins some games.

Re: Simply the Best

Posted: March 7th, 2007, 10:19 am
by once a runner
Granted that 1/6 is not great odds, but it's still better than 0/6. It's always more memorable when an underdog wins. I'd bet than anyone who watched college basketball in the 80's remembers the NC State and Villanova games very well.

Some other things about basketball, they NEVER have had co-champions. An undefeated team has never been denied an opportunity to win the championship. The pollsters have no say whatsoever on who wins the championship. Those "meaningless" first round games generate more national excitement (not to mention ratings) than the bowl games played before Dec. 31st.

Posted: March 12th, 2007, 8:30 am
by abpk2903
NC State would have got in if there were 8 teams that year. They won their conference tourney. Kansas, Nova, NC State are usually good. You act like it is Niagra, Flordia A&M, and Holy Cross winning the tourney. Yeah George Mason made it to the final four, big deal. Let me know when one of these "small" teams win it all. Until then it is just like college football where only about 30-40 teams even have a chance of winning a national title. It is not just the polls, bowls, or tourney. It is much more. These 30-40 teams get all the recruits, money, TV rights, fan base, and are willing to spend whatever nessessary to win. This is why yeah Rutgers can win a few big games in football or George Mason or Valprasario (however you spell it) can win a few games in basketball and they both can be close but they will not win a national title just for the reason that I said above.

I can name you 30 teams right now and over the next 15 years one of those 30 teams will win the national title. No one more. The tourney just gives these "small" schools false hope because the only tournament they will ever win is their conference tourney.

Posted: March 12th, 2007, 8:54 am
by abpk2903
Here is the list of national champions since 1967.

'67-UCLA
'68-UCLA
'69-UCLA
'70-UCLA
'71-UCLA
'72-UCLA
'73-UCLA
'74-NC STATE
'75-UCLA
'76-INDIANA
'77-MARQUETTE
'78-KENTUCKY
'79-MICHIGAN ST
'80-LOUISVILLE
'81-INDIANA
'82-NORTH CAROLINA
'83-NC STATE
'84-GEORGETOWN
'85-VILLANOVA
'86-LOUISVILLE
'87-INDIANA
'88-KANSAS
'89-MICHIGAN
'90-UNLV
'91-DUKE
'92-DUKE
'93-NORTH CAROLINA
'94-ARKANSAS
'95-UCLA
'96-KENTUCKY
'97-ARIZONA
'98-KENTUCKY
'99-UCONN
'00-MICHIGAN STATE
'01-DUKE
'02-MARYLAND
'03-SYRACUSE
'04-UCONN
'05-NORTH CAROLINA
'06-FLORDIA

So in 40 years of this tournament, this is the list of teams that actually won it:

Flordia: 1
Syracuse: 1
UNLV: 1
Villanova: 1
Maryland: 1
Arizona: 1
Arkansas: 1
Michigan: 1
Kansas: 1
Marquette: 1
Georgetown: 1
NC State: 2
UCONN: 2
Michigan State: 2
Louisville: 2
Duke: 3
Indiana: 3
Kentucky: 3
North Carolina: 3
UCLA: 9

So in 40 years only 20 teams ever won the tournament. If you were to pick a winner this year it would probably be someone in the list or about 10 other teams. So really college basketball really hasn't had that many "UNDERDOGS" win it all.

Re: Simply the Best

Posted: March 12th, 2007, 11:27 am
by once a runner
abpk, with your logic then we should only have 1 bowl game in football, right? I mean why bother letting anyone play that doesn't have a chance to win the national title? Under the current system, only 2 teams deserve chance to play for the championship.

One other thing you should not about your list of champions....they have all (or almost all) lost to mid-majors. Last year alone George Mason beat North Carolina and Connecticut, 2 teams that had a legitimate shot at winning it all. Just 2 years ago there were 2 number 1 seeds knocked out in just the 2nd round. The one thing we know for sure is that there will be upsets in the tourney that create a lot of excitement. Limiting the field would take that excitement away and hurt what makes it so special.

Posted: March 15th, 2007, 8:29 am
by abpk2903
My point is that I don't feel the 65th best team in the nation throughout the regular season should have a chance to win a National Title. I do like the tournament but I feel 16 teams max should get in. Just like I would like a playoff in college football but I think 8 teams is all that should get in. Nothing bugs me more than a coach like Jim Boehiem of Syracuse holding a press conference to complain about not getting into a 65 team tournament. If you are on the bubble of a 65 team tournament. It is not the selections commitees fault if you don't make the NCAA touney it is your own.

Do I watch the NCAA tourney and enjoy it? Yes
Do I watch many regular season college basketball? NO

It is because the regular season in college basketball is next to completly useless. That is why 100,000+ pack into college football stadiums every Saturday because the regular season in college football is actually meaningful. If you lose once your done.

Posted: March 15th, 2007, 8:30 am
by abpk2903
My point is that I don't feel the 65th best team in the nation throughout the regular season should have a chance to win a National Title. I do like the tournament but I feel 16 teams max should get in. Just like I would like a playoff in college football but I think 8 teams is all that should get in. Nothing bugs me more than a coach like Jim Boehiem of Syracuse holding a press conference to complain about not getting into a 65 team tournament. If you are on the bubble of a 65 team tournament. It is not the selections commitees fault if you don't make the NCAA touney it is your own.

Do I watch the NCAA tourney and enjoy it? Yes
Do I watch many regular season college basketball games? NO

It is because the regular season in college basketball is next to completly useless. That is why 100,000+ pack into college football stadiums every Saturday because the regular season in college football is actually meaningful. If you lose once your done.

Posted: March 15th, 2007, 8:34 am
by abpk2903
Also, Notice the list of champions over the last 40 years. Of that list only 2 teams are not in the tournament this year, NC State and Syracuse and if either one of those teams won 1 more game they would be in. So it is the same teams winning the same things over and over again. Just like college football.

Re: Simply the Best

Posted: March 15th, 2007, 7:00 pm
by El-Moldo
If any college football team loses one of their 1st couple of games of the season, do they realistically have a chance to win the National Championship even if they get better and better each week? But in B-ball, you can lose games and still win the Championship. THAT'S the big difference.