Westmont Consolidation

[Opinionguy]

Conemaugh Valley pays what it needs to pay.

Why don't you enlighten us "knowitall" with your profession, how many years you have worked there, and then what you make.

$20,500 for a starting salary for a professional with a college degree? $30,000 after ten years of service? Please! With the cost of going to college, how can anyone afford to make that kind of money and raise a family?

Do me a favor, please tell me know that educating isn't important, and how anyone can be a teacher. Then go ahead and tell me that you really want to our country to go down the shitter.

I'm not saying there can't be cuts and ways to save money in education...but to suggest that a person who goes to school for 4 years should make $20,000, insane.

[knowitall]

Conemaugh Valley has no shortage of qualified applicants when they have a job opening. If they did, they would have to pay more. That's the laws of supply and demand, i.e., Basic economics. College grads with degrees in education and business administration are a dime a dozen. There are college graduates working as bank tellers in Johnstown who don't make $20,500 per year. There may be cashiers at Walmart who have college degrees.

[wpbc]

Getting a lot of applicants for a job opening doesn't necessarily mean that you are attracting the best people available. PITT after getting rid of Wanny could have said that the salary for the next head coach would have been 20k a year and they would have had a thousand pee wee dad's who thought they were the best coach in the world apply, that doesn't mean that they are attracting the best people for the position. Somebody mentioned about "how many teachers are working towards their masters?". All teachers have to acquire 24 post graduate credits within 5 years of recieving their undergrad or they lose their certification, so most go on and work for the remaining 12 - 15 credits to get their masters. Right now the average per capita income in the US is nearly 50k. I can't believe anyone could think that someone with a college education should start out nearly 60% below average and 50 - 100k in school loans.

[VAD1]

knowitall

Conemaugh Valley pays what it needs to pay. They don't appear to have any shortage of applicants and have many teachers with plenty of years of service.

Pays what it needs to pay? I don't understand what that statement is even trying to explain. Also, having many teachers with plenty of years of service just promotes what I said earlier - they either didn't try to leave when they were younger or simply couldn't get hired anywhere else.

I would rather have young, eager teachers than jaded teachers who are just there to cash a paycheck anyday.

Okay, obviously it would be better to have a young, energetic teacher than some old jerk who doesn't care anymore. That's not what I was saying. I'm saying cv doesn't pay an experienced teacher applicant, instead they hire a 1st year teacher. Along with that comes a lack of experience. You can say "bunk" all you want, but student-teaching does not equal actual teaching experience in your own classroom.

I could care less what teachers have masters degrees.

Typical response when your feelings are hurt or you're wrong. I didn't ask if you cared. You're the one who made the statement, "I'd put any of those teachers up against teachers from any other district." Would you? Because you'd be the only one. A teacher without their masters degree vs. a teacher with their masters degree makes my decision very easy if I'm doing the hiring. One teacher is willing to better themself, the other did not for whatever reason.

If you want to pay to get a masters degree go right ahead.

Well, that's my point. It shows you've made the commitment to better yourself vs. a teacher who didn't.

I live in the CV district, do not work in education (nor does any immediate family member) and graduated from a different school district in the area. I know many teachers in the area and out of the area. Your statement about classroom discipline skills and increased behavior problems is bunk.

The fact that you don't work in education says it all. If you did, you'd know that experience equals classroom presence. Heck, experience in anything makes you better prepared to deal with any situation in life! Why choose a person with zero experience over a person with some experience? Because you can get away with paying the less experienced person less money. If a district is content with that, so be it.

You can google PA Teachers Salaries. The list shows the length of time a teacher has been at his current school and the number of years of overall experience. The most recent data I can find is from 2009

Yes, I suppose I could find that information online, but why would I? You're the one who spouted off about the quality of students and teachers in that district. It's up to you to prove that or let it die. Expect to be questioned, especially when you answer a question with another question.

[knowitall]

Having a masters degree doesn't make a teacher a better teacher or a businessman a better businessman. You can better yourself on your own.

My experience with education is as a consumer. I graduated from high school and college and have children in school. (I homeschooled myself for what I believe is a masters degree equivalent, how's that?). I knew a good teacher when I had one.

You really don't understand what I mean when I say it pays what it needs to pay? It's basic economics! We have a surplus of people with education degrees living in this area. The state has a minimum wage scale for teachers. Conemaugh Valley has determineed and proven that it can attract qualified teachers while paying the minimum wage. That's commendable given the fact that the district probably has one of the lower per capita incomes in the state. Furthermore, teachers that have chosen to stay when they could have chased more money elswehere could also indicate that they are dedicated to their profession. Many people in all walks of life have chosen to stay at a job in which they are content instead of pursuing other opportunities.

The best students in any school district in the state could be taken out of any school in the state and placed in any other school in the state and will continue to excel. That is my opinion. There are no facts out there that could prove that statement one way or the other. Every school district has good teachers and bad teachers just like every business has good employees and bad employees.

The reality is the education system in this country will have to change. A one year wage freeze in teachers' salaries is applying a band-aid to a ruptured dam. Property tax revenues have not kept pace with increases in salaries, benefit costs, electricity costs, insurance costs, gasoline costs, etc. Ultimately, we will see more change in other industries worldwide. Public employees are an easy target. Utility workers, health care workers, bankers and lawyers will get their turn in time. We cannot continue to spend more than we have. The topic of this thread is Westmont Consolidation. Consolidation alone will not solve the problem.

[knowitall]

I can't believe anyone could think that someone with a college education should start out nearly 60% below average and 50 - 100k in school loans.

What one should start out making and what we (the public as a whole) are able to pay has to be reconciled at some point. We have school districts in Cambria, Somerset and Bedford counties where the average per capita income is far below the national average. We can't keep taking from those in higher per capita districts (Westmont, for example) and give to Johnstown, Conemaugh Valley or Glendale.

The price of a college education is ultimately going to have to come down.

[knowitall]

Conemaugh Valley pays what it needs to pay.

Why don't you enlighten us "knowitall" with your profession, how many years you have worked there, and then what you make.

[/u]

I work in a competitive private industry which relies on customers to fund its operations and receives no tax dollars. If I worked in the public school system my position would be superintendent. My company would be the equivalent of say a Windber or a Portage in the West PAC. I have been with my current company 4 1/3 years and have 10 1/3 years overall experience. I make less than half what the average school superintendent is making today.

[richaboli]

Because teachers and school administrators in the 70's made much less than they would working in the private sector, teachers joined unions. Back then companies were adding pay and more benefits every year to attract and keep good employees. Medical benefits were included at no cost. Full time jobs were the only way to attract good workers. Today, the opposite is happening. Companies are cutting back in everything and making every job they can at part time. Working an assembly line in manufacturing used to be Pennsylvania's middle class; today's assembly workers are the poorest of the poor. Today's school administrators and teachers won't accept that the fact that they are over paid and have more benefits than the same educated workers of their community because they believe their crooked union leaders.

[Opinionguy]

Conemaugh Valley pays what it needs to pay.

Why don't you enlighten us "knowitall" with your profession, how many years you have worked there, and then what you make.

[/u]

I work in a competitive private industry which relies on customers to fund its operations and receives no tax dollars. If I worked in the public school system my position would be superintendent. My company would be the equivalent of say a Windber or a Portage in the West PAC. I have been with my current company 4 1/3 years and have 10 1/3 years overall experience. I make less than half what the average school superintendent is making today.

Find me a superintendent in this area that only has 10 years in education. You won't find one.

You've only been working 10 years and you are making half a Superintendent? Supers in this area Average $110,000. So we'll put you at 50,000. That's a far cry from a teacher working 10 years at CV making 30,000. Maybe you should sacrifice that extra 20,000 back to the CV school district to ease their burden. I mean you want to bash what other people do for a living, put your money where your mouth is if it is an acceptable wage.

Today's school administrators and teachers won't accept that the fact that they are overpaid and havemore benefits than the same educated workers of their community because they believe their crooked union leaders.

Overpaid? False. Again, check your facts. Teachers are the 2nd lowest paid profession (only in front of social workers) in accordance to having a 4 year degree.

Here is the link done by CBSmoney http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-money ... alary/577/

How about you go after the guy climbing poles for Penelec, or the Penndot guy sitting in turnabout listening to the radio, or maybe the insurance companies making millions. I would bet my job I won't open up the Tribune for 7 consecutive days, like I have recently and read about these people. Nope, keep ripping teachers, they're the easy target.

[odoyelrules]

I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison of local PA teacher wages and benefits received per hour worked along with similar ratios for other professions like nurses, journalists and accountants. A wages only comparison skews things by ignoring significant differences in hours worked and benefits received by professions.

Research indicates that as a whole teachers plateau/slowly decline in effectiveness after 10 years as teachers, yet the pay structure and (at least for now) job security are based on years of service. I find the current process where teacher competency is ignored, or at is best an afterthought to be very frustrating.

Research also shows that teachers that have a masters degree are no more effective than teachers without those degrees. Heck it even shows no significant differences in teacher quality based on where the bachelor degree was earned.

Somerset county median household per capita income was just under $38,000 in 2008, fwiw.

I'm all for privatizing the Turnpike & PennDot maintenance operations and eliminating those politically filled positions, I'd guess that would save the state $ and the deer carcasses would be scraped up quicker.