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You avoid 99.9% of anything I say and concentrate on one play and a meaningless stat such as +/-. I did a little quick research and found there isn't as much correlation between + and wins and - and losses. Hell recently Sid has been a + in a loss and a - in a win. That tells you that the stat doesn't mean nearly as much as what you want it to. 

You keep wanting to make this an individual game... it's not. Crosby (or anyone) can completely dominate for long stretches of the game and do so in a losing fashion. There are way too many variables in a team sport to isolate one persons play.... I better be careful, those may be fancy words. 

I don't understand why you even argue with him anymore. At this point it's pointless. Konjo, I am going to debunk your theory of plus/minus (for the 30th time) with a personal example. My junior year I had 34 points: 16 goals 18 assists in 20 games my +/- was a -8, my team went 8-9-3. My senior year I had 32 points: 17 goals 15 assists in 20 games my +/- was a +5 my team went 13-6-1. Nothing about my individual stat line drastically changed except for +/-. What else drastically changed? My teams record. This is undeniable Konjo. +/- is not useless but rarely does it ever tell the tale about an individual's performance. More so the line, the team, and a broad stat of how all 18 skaters and their goalie combine. I know you will find a way, but that example is undeniable. I'm not gonna argue, just wanted to chime in real quick.

Wait wait wait.... how are you going to debunk my +/- idea when you admit yourself the change that was happened when yours went up was your teams win loss?

You guys just love proving me right 

It's been awhile since I went around in circles with this dolt.... just felt the need to go a few rounds. I use facts and actual quotes from respected individuals in the hockey world. Wayne Gretzky says it about hockey and thats about as much validation as one would need. He likes to use his opinions or something he talked about with his knowledgeable friends in a circle between a round of Dungeons and Dragons.  

It is about hockey. Scoring more goals than giving up i agree with wayne.

And Wayne said Sid is the best player in the game.... Sooooo you finally see the light. 

konjo78 wrote:Wait wait wait.... how are you going to debunk my +/- idea when you admit yourself the change that was happened when yours went up was your teams win loss? Be

You guys just love proving me right 

Please revise this sentence so I know what you are trying to say

all doesn't matter if Murray doesn't figure out the wrap around and the glove side ....Sharks have found his weakness.

I have figured out Konjos problem. He probably played in an athletic conference where there was one dominant team who had one good player who's stats were so ridiculously inflated that it wasn't even funny. That player could influence the games outcomes just because his ability compared to everyone else was so lopsided.

Konjo, that is not how professional sports works. That's not even how my high school sports worked. You prove that you really know nothing of a competitive struggle when you say (or at least I think you tried to say) "your plus minus went up when your teams record went up" (also you proved yourself wrong and us right, that's basically confirming its a team stat). There were nights where I was off, I didnt score any, didn't have a hand in any of my linemates goals, they scored 2, and I played shitty defense but none went past while I was on the ice, my plus minus was a 2 does that tell anything about my individual performance? Or how about the flip side? This was rare, but there were nights where it seemed every time I touched the puck I scored, my passing was efficient, I was digging it out down at the boards, checking well, and back checking wonderfully, but my other linemates ate a turd and we let 4 in, I'm a negative 1, that tells you nothing about my game. It gives you a broad overlook of my team, my line even, but not me. Understand?

In professional sports, in most sport setting in general actually, not a lot separates the best player from the worst. It's a mindset thing, a confidence thing. You've seen it from this team all playoffs, any given night somebody has a career game: Rust, Bonino, Sheary, Kuhnackl, Crosby, Malkin. What they all have in common is they had nights where they were on and night(s) where they were off.