Do Private schools have an athletic edge?

[Dfense wins games]

Westmont vs Jtown past 4 years (recent -> past)...
Westmont 14-7, Jtown 14-8, Westmont 27-14, Westmont 30-26

Johnstown, more kids participate, greater competition, more "superstar athletes", LESS success....

Take a look at BM's last 10 games vs BC...
Both in top of LHAC for that time period. Record vs LHAC opponents is similar. They are as similar as private schools can get. Financially, I would give McCort the nod, BM has more kids in school, similar size rosters. Yet! BM is a meager 2-8 in that stretch! How can you explain that? Oh, because games are decided on the field. Coaching has a big say in it.

Tell me, are Quippa and Beaver Falls consistantly vying for Western finals and state championships? How? They have TRADITION! Both are public schools, just like, hmm Westmont! I wonder whose parents make more GREEN, Hilltopper parents or Quippa parents? I'm sure location of the school has nothing to do with it! "But Westmont has less families on the poverty line, and we have great kids come to our school and lots of competition" :roll:

Someone brought up the point that BM puts adds in the paper and on the TV, guess what? So do FH, CC, BC when they are winning playoff games!!!!! Winning, in my book, is a type of recruitment.

"Lets see, Im a fast player, have some size, I would like to play in college, My high school hasnt made the playoffs in 5 years and we've NEVER had a kid play in college and this Bishop McCort team always has players going to college any more! They are a lock to play in the championship. Heck, Im goin there for high school! " -No "recruiting necessary

[usatf oldguy]

"Lets see, Im a fast player, have some size, I would like to play in college, My high school hasnt made the playoffs in 5 years and we've NEVER had a kid play in college and this Bishop McCort team always has players going to college any more! They are a lock to play in the championship. Heck, Im goin there for high school! " -No "recruiting necessary[/quote] I beleive you have just demonstrated why there is an edge.The tradition at alot of these schools continue because of the influx of athletes that come because of the circumstances you have just stated.If this school who has not made the playoffs or had kids go to college continues to lose athletes because of the scenario you brought up it is just as plain as the nose on your face"UNFAIR".If these privates have this advantage it is too much for a public to overcome on any kind of a consistent basis.Highschool sports aren't college sports they are inherintly different,but if a certain sector can recruit without any consiquences they have an advantage period!Just for the record defense wins games if the athlete you speak of does exactly what you condone it is a blatent rules infraction.This is exactly the type of scenario as to why public and privates should be separated.There should be NO ALLSTAR PRIVATE teams in any sport that play a public school who get what they get by luck of the draw! You have demonstrated a form of recruiting whether you realize it or not.

[bcc1]

Lets say that I am a a student at Portage and want to go to FH and play football because of their tradition. I could not live in the Portage school district and go to FH w/out facing consequences. But if I am a student at say Cambria Heights and see in the paper that Bishop Carrol is doing well in football then I can transfer to this private school w/out consequences. Correct?

So in my opinion, YES, the privates have an unfair advantage.

Posting scores in a local newspaper is a little different than taking out full page ads and commercials telling the community what a great school you have. If a student / athlete could pack up and leave Portage for FH or leave Harmony for CH then yes, there would be an unfair advantage for the publics as well.

[Dfense wins games]

Lets say that I am a a student at Portage and want to go to FH and play football because of their tradition. I could not live in the Portage school district and go to FH w/out facing consequences. But if I am a student at say Cambria Heights and see in the paper that Bishop Carrol is doing well in football then I can transfer to this private school w/out consequences. Correct?

NO! You can pay to go to FH, just as others pay to go to BMHS

[pats39]

Yes, you could DWG, but you would have to pay full price(whatever that may be) with no "financial aid"(scholarships), and IMO unless the parents straight up moved it would be a lot harder to show that the student athlete is not leaving for athletic purposes.

[voncap]

So much for civility.

VMAN WROTE: ]"HOLY MISINFORMED, STEREO TYPING, LACK OF UNDERSTANDING/CONCERN, SHALLOWNESS!!! [/b] If a kid has ADD, ODD, a Learning Disabilities, Dyslexia, etc.. they can't be athletic???? According to the 2000 U.S. Census, there are 49.7 million Americans over the age of four with a disability. That represents 19 percent of the population. Among that 19 percent, 14.3 million Americans have a mental disability . "

In my post, show me were I said a kid with a disability can't be athletic. Holy unable to comprehend a point. After re-reading what I wrote, I can't seem to find anywhere where I said that. As a matter of fact I know quite a few kids with disabilities who are darn good athletes.

Jane you ignorant slut, I enjoy a good point/counterpoint as much as the next person, but stating all kids with disabilities can't be athletic would be ridiculous. It would be like saying because McCort and BC don't recruit therefore no other private school in the state recruits.

Great stories on the kids with disabilities. These kid's accomplishments should be applauded, but as I read those great stories, I had to wonder how many of them were enrolled at private schools, and whether or not a private school would have even accepted them had they tried to enroll?

By the way, how are the wrestling teams at McCort, BC and BG going to be this year?

TO: DWG

Some good points. The problem with your comparisons is we are talking about private v. public. In the Westmont/J-town comparison, you are talking about public v. public. How have those two teams faired the last ten years vs. BM and BC. In the second example, you compare BM v. BC. How has BC (or BM for that matter) faired against public schools of similar size?

I agree coaching definitely plays a part in a teams success, but would a Portage or a Bellwood gone 8-2 vs. McCort in the last ten years? Both of those schools are class A like BC and have what I would consider excellent coaching staffs and tremendous tradition/programs.

[Dfense wins games]

My point was that if there are major differences between public-public and private-private, then of course there will be differences between public-private.

[vman]

In my post, show me were I said a kid with a disability can't be athletic. Holy unable to comprehend a point. After re-reading what I wrote, I can't seem to find anywhere where I said that.

In a public school, you have 10% of the enrollment who have some type of mental or physical disability and will never be able to contribute to the athletic programs. You also have another 10% who have severe enough learning disabilities that regardless of how good a coach someone is, they are not likely to get any contribution from that part of the school's enrollment.

This is nearly as bad however:

The public school enrollment also includes about another 20% of the enrollment that comes from a socio-economical part of society where sports/extra-curricular activities are not considered important or encouraged and are not part of their lifestyle. .

I mean Holy Arcuie Bunker......poor kids or kids from disadvantaged backgrounds can't or don't play sports?? Tell the kids from Aliquippa they can't play football or Perry & Chester kids they can't play basketball!

Then agendas come out:

By the way, how are the wrestling teams at McCort, BC and BG going to be this year?

What is your point here? Other than taking a shot or being a wise guy?

[voncap]

VMAN wrote: Tell the kids from Aliquippa they can't play football or Perry & Chester kids they can't play basketball!

Wow!! And you said I was stereotyping. How do you know the kids who play sports at those schools don't come from 'well-to-do' families? Did you just use those three schools because they are predominantly African-american and you assume because they are African-american they are poor?

I don't know who 'Arcuie Bunker' is, but I doubt even Archie Bunker would have crossed the line that far.

"Then the Agenda comes out" ???? What's my agenda? Gee I know, I want those three schools to start wrestling programs. Your right it was a wise guy comment, but how can you interpret a wise a-- comment into an agenda. By the way, your the one who brought wrestling into the discussion not me.

Vman, I admire your support of your institution. I have given you my opinion as to why I think private schools have an advantage over similar size public schools. You can chop it apart as much as you want but it is still my opinion and the theory has validity. The fact is the make up of the enrollments of public schools and private schools are different.

You have done a good job criticizing my opinion on the matter, now let's hear why you think the private schools don't have an athletic advantage.

Tells us why the private school's ability to give financial aid to a student who normally wouldn't be able to afford the private school isn't an advantage.

Tells us why the private school's ability to control their student population isn't an advantage.

I'd even welcome a few examples where you feel similar sized public schools have an advantage over the private schools.

Convince us!

[vman]

WOW, don't even know where to start von........you are the one who has eliminated 40% of all public school students from athletic participation due to being handicapped, slow mentally or poor! JUST FEEDING BACK WHAT U MADE UP!

??? What's my agenda? Gee I know, I want those three schools to start wrestling programs. Your right it was a wise guy comment, but how can you interpret a wise a-- comment into an agenda. By the way, your the one who brought wrestling into the discussion not me.

How the H311 do you figure this......I NEVER ONCE MENTIONED WRESTLING.....just noted your admitted " it was a wise guy comment" and now I brought it up???? ....please show me!

Now since you totally made up #'s & stereotyped 40% of public students and asked for clarity as to why I feel the private schools don't have an athletic advantage I will expound on an earlier response ( which should also answer OAR's support of your ridiculous athletic advantage for privates) . Remember my recent Ligonier example? Now in the past decade Ligonier has sent numerous students to BM...and guess what? I can only think of one significant varsity athlete among the dozens matriculating from that area.....and most would be from upper income families; further shooting holes in the "kids from families with higher incomes are more likely to participate in athletics" supposition! Likewise, Somerset has sent more & more students to BM in the last 5-7 yrs....mainly due to frustration over the drawn out teacher strikes...I can think of one varsity athlete in those yrs.....and again many of those from Somerset were from well educated, upper income families! Students also come from the Seward & Armagh area...can't think of any impact athletes from these areas in recent yrs. & likewise, it is not unreasonable to assume these families have some resources to make this educational decision.

Conclusion: Obviously taking students in from areas outside of the greater Jtwn region has not helped BM athletically! Conversely, it has hurt them by maintaining AA status. But of course they do have an open door policy & it is ludicrous to think they would turn away a potential student due the fact they are not athletic!