Did you know?

[frostlion]

[quote="Lemmy";p="114535"]
Impeachment time has come.
[/quote]

LMFAO. Absolutely zero grounds for impeachment or even discussing the concept. No treason or bribery. "High crimes and misdomeaners"? No one can claim either contempt or faliure to cooperate with Congress. They were, in fact, notified.

[quote="Lemmy";p="114535"]
One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a "Vegan Community Project." Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's "semi-communistic ideology." A third indicates the bureau's interest in determining the location of a protest over llama fur planned by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
[/quote]

The key word here is "PLANNED" and "INTEREST" . Did they actually carry it out?

[quote="Lemmy";p="114539"]
The New York Times has disclosed that George W. Bush secretly waived rules restricting electronic surveillance inside the United States, allowing spying on hundreds of Americans without a court warrant. But almost as stunning was the Times admission that it had held the story for a year.

Indeed, it appears the information about Bush’s secret spy order was leaked before Election 2004, but was kept from the American people because the Bush administration warned Times executives that the story’s publication might endanger national security.
[/quote]

THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE and is neither new nor shocking. During the Cuban Missile Crisis the NYT, at JFK's request sat on numerous stories dealing not only with the fact that Soviet missiles were in Cuba, but also over the American response.

What will come out of this?? Zero. If anything the ability of the Administration to undertake such activities might be questioned and raised in the federal courts. In many ways, this is very similar to Ex parte Milligan (1866), where the powers of the president in wartime are questioned. The Supreme Court ultimately rules against Lincoln (even though he's dead). Had he been alive, would he have faced impeachment because the Court had declared he had misread the law?? If you answer yes, I want to sell you the 200 story skyscraper that stands here in Athens.

As it turns out (just posted on Drudge with links to the Washington Post):

CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS -- WITHOUT COURT ORDER

CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: 'ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE' WITHOUT COURT ORDER

Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approval

Clinton, February 9, 1995: "The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order"

Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: "Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order."

WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also -- in the delicate words of a Justice Department official -- to "places where you wouldn't find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen... would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order."

Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president "has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes."

Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames's office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.

[southpaw]

Once again the libs on here engage in double talk and hypocrisy!

Don't believe the DOD or any gov't agency or for that matter any report about good news in Iraq. I have come to the conclusion that you people don't want good news from Iraq don't want us to win the war because in your skewed sense of reality that by us failing in Iraq is your ticket back to the WH and control in Congress.

But we are to believe everything the NYT prints without substatial evidence as long as it is bad about Iraq!

Absolutely assanine!

[southpaw]

[web]http://www.vitw.org[/web]

Ya this site is real objective OAR! We can believe everyting they print here.

C'mon are you libs that out of touch with reality?

[Lemmy]

Sen. John Cornyn: "None of your civil liberties matter much after you're dead."

Sen. Russ Feingold's retort: "Give me liberty or give me death."


CLINTON DID NOT ORDER WARRANTLESS SEARCHES OF AMERICAN CITIZENS:

HERE IS WHAT CLINTON SIGNED:


Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.

You don't have to be a lawyer to understand that Clinton allowed warrantless searches if and only if the AG followed section 302(a)(1). What does section 1822(a) require?


the "physical search is solely directed at premises, information, material, or property used exclusively by, or under the open and exclusive control of, a foreign power or powers." Translation: You can't search American citizens.

and there is "no substantial likelihood that the physical search will involve the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person." Translation: You can't search American citizens.

CARTER DID NOT AUTHORIZE WARRANTLESS SEARCHES OF AMERICAN CITIZENS
HERE IS WHAT CARTER SIGNED:


1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section.

Here, Carter refers to "electronic surveillance," rather than "physical searches" like Clinton. But again, Carter limits the warrantless surveillance to the requirements of Section 1802(a). That section requires:


the electronic surveillance is solely directed at communications exclusively between or among foreign powers. Translation: You can't spy on American citizens.

there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party. Translation: You can't spy on American citizens.


Section 1803(a)(2) requires that the Attorney General report to Congress (specifically, the House and Senate Intelligence Committees) about whether any American citizens were involved, what minimization procedures were undertaken to avoid it and protect their identities, and whether his actions comply with the law. Hot dang, that sounds like a check and balance to me!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00685.html

Spy Court Judge Quits In Protest
Jurist Concerned Bush Order Tainted Work of Secret Panel

By Carol D. Leonnig and Dafna Linzer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 21, 2005; Page A01

A federal judge has resigned from the court that oversees government surveillance in intelligence cases in protest of President Bush's secret authorization of a domestic spying program, according to two sources.

U.S. District Judge James Robertson, one of 11 members of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, sent a letter to Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. late Monday notifying him of his resignation without providing an explanation.

Two associates familiar with his decision said yesterday that Robertson privately expressed deep concern that the warrantless surveillance program authorized by the president in 2001 was legally questionable and may have tainted the FISA court's work.

Robertson, who was appointed to the federal bench in Washington by President Bill Clinton in 1994 and was later selected by then-Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist to serve on the FISA court, declined to comment when reached at his office late yesterday.

Word of Robertson's resignation came as two Senate Republicans joined the call for congressional investigations into the National Security Agency's warrantless interception of telephone calls and e-mails to overseas locations by U.S. citizens suspected of links to terrorist groups. They questioned the legality of the operation and the extent to which the White House kept Congress informed.

Sens. Chuck Hagel (Neb.) and Olympia J. Snowe (Maine) echoed concerns raised by Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who has promised hearings in the new year.

[Lemmy]

http://www.nysun.com/article/24683?page_no=1


But Mr. al-Alusi, a former de-Baathification official who had two sons assassinated and has praised Mr. Bush in the past, said he is worried that the prospect of a constitutional democracy is now in peril. "Somebody has given the president false information," he said in an interview from Baghdad. "We have had a great Iraqi day, the election day on Thursday. But someone who was well organized has stolen our election day." He added, "We may have just traded the Baathist fascists for the religious fascists."




Mr. al-Alusi said yesterday that he felt his party was cheated. He said that monitors from his Iraqi Nation Party were so intimidated at polling stations in Najaf and Basra that they were afraid even to file reports on election day. One of the party's leading candidates in Basra yesterday, Majid al-Sari, was nearly killed after his car hit a land mine only 100 meters from his home. "It's impossible that this land mine got there accidentally," Mr. al-Alusi said yesterday. Mr. al-Alusi also said he could confirm a report last week from the New York Times that a truckload of phony ballots had been intercepted by Iraqi police driving into Iraq from Iran.

[southpaw]

Once again the libs want us to believe everything they say or print.

Another obscure article about a disgruntled Iraqi!


70% TURNED OUT TO VOTE!!!!!! WITHOUT INCIDENT!!!!!

Once again I must believe that the libs want us to lose and will not give the military and the Bush administration any credit for turning the corner in Irag!

[Lemmy]

Well, you know you make me wanna
(Shout) Throw my hand up
(Shout) Kick my heels back
(Shout) Throw my head back
(Shout) Come on now (Shout)
Don't forget to say you will
(Shout, Shout) Don't forget to say
(Shout) Yeah yeah yeah yeah, come on
(Say you will) Say it right now, baby
(Say you will) Come on, come on
(Say you will) Say it right now, baby
(Say you will)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 23_pf.html

Sunni, Secular Groups Demand New Vote
Claims That Iraqi Ballot Was Rigged
Threaten to Derail Government, Boost Insurgency

By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, December 21, 2005; A23



BAGHDAD, Dec. 20 -- Sunni and secular political groups angrily claimed Tuesday that last week's Iraqi national election was rigged, demanded a new vote and threatened to leave a shambles the delicate plan to bring the country's wary factions together in a new government.

Faced with preliminary vote counts that suggest a strong victory by the United Iraqi Alliance, a coalition of Shiite Muslim religious parties that dominates the outgoing government, political leaders of Iraq's Sunni Arab minority hinted that insurgent violence would be accelerated by the suspicions of fraud.

Alluding to Sunnis who chose to abandon their earlier rejection of Iraqi politics and participate in Thursday's election, Adnan Dulaimi, a chief of the main Sunni coalition, the Tawafaq front, demanded: "What would we tell those whom we indirectly convinced to stop the attacks during the election period? What would we tell those people who wanted to boycott and we convinced them to participate?"

The preliminary results, he said, were "not in the interest of stability of the country."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/mid ... 334476.ece

Another victor in the election is the fiery nationalist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, whose Mehdi Army militia fought fierce battles with US troops last year. The US military said at the time it intended "to kill or capture him".


The US ambassador in Baghdad, Zilmay Khalilzad, sounded almost despairing yesterday as he reviewed the results of the election. "It looks as if people have preferred to vote for their ethnic or sectarian identities," he said. "But for Iraq to succeed there has to be cross-ethnic and cross-sectarian co-operation."

[Lemmy]

"I (the undersigned) believe President George W. Bush when he says that the United States of America is fighting a 'new kind of enemy' that requires 'new thinking' about how to wage war. Therefore, as a loyal citizen of President Bush’s United States, my signature below indicates my agreement to the following:

"1. I believe wholeheartedly in the Patriot Act as initially passed by Congress in 2001, as well as the provisions of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act. Therefore, I grant the FBI access to:

"a. my library records, so it may determine if I am reading material that might designate me an enemy of the nation;

"b. my financial records, including credit reports, so it may determine if I am contributing monetarily to any governmentally proscribed activities or organizations;

"c. my medical records, so it may determine if my prescriptions, injuries, or other conditions are indicative of terrorist activity on my part;

"d. any and all other personal records including, but not limited to, my store purchases, my school records, my web browsing history, and anything else determined as a 'tangible thing' necessary to engage in a secret investigation of me.

"I agree that I do not need to be notified if my records have come under scrutiny by the FBI, and, furthermore, I agree that no warrant is needed for the FBI to engage in this examination of my personal records. Additionally, I agree that the FBI should be allowed to monitor any groups it believes may be linked to what it determines to be terrorist activity.

"2. I believe that the President of the United States has the power to mitigate any and all laws passed by the Congress and that he has such power granted to him by his status as Commander-in-Chief in the Constitution as well as the 2001 Authorization of Military Force, passed by the Congress, which states that the President can use 'all necessary and appropriate force' in prosecution of the war. Therefore, I grant the United States government the following powers:

"a. that the National Security Agency, under the direction of the President, may tap my phone lines and intercept my e-mail without warrant or FISA oversight;

"b. that the President may hold me or other detainees without access to the legal system for a period of time determined by the President or his agents;

"c. that the President may authorize physical force against me or other individual detainees in order to gain intelligence and that he may define whether such physical force may be called 'torture':

"d. that the President may set aside any and all laws he sees as hindering the gathering of intelligence and prevention of terrorist acts for a period as time determined by the President, including, but not limited to, rights to political protest.

"I agree that the Judicial and Legislative branch should be allowed no oversight of these activities, and that such oversight merely emboldens the terrorists. I also agree that virtually all of these activities may be conducted in complete secrecy and that revelation of these activities amount to treasonous behavior on the part of those who reveal these activities to the press and the citizenry.

"3. Finally, this document is my statement that I believe the President of the United States and the entire executive branch, as well as all departments and agencies involved, as well as all of its personnel, will treat these powers I have granted them with utmost respect. I believe that these powers will not be abused, nor will any of the information I have given them permission to examine be misinterpreted. However, should such abuse or misinterpretation occur, I agree that such actions are mere errors and no one should be subject to investigation, arrest, or employment action as a result.

"My consent freely given,
"(Your signature)"

[Lemmy]

Surpreme Court recent ruling.....

The Government's position cannot be mandated by any reasonable view of the separation of powers, as this view only serves to condense power into a single branch of government. We have long since made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation's citizens. Youngstown Steel and Tube, 343 U.S. at 587. Whatever power the United States Constitution envisions for the Executive in times of conflict with other Nations or enemy organizations, it most assuredly envisions a role for all three branches when individual liberties are at stake.

Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.

[southpaw]

I think that John Kerry and Al Gore wanted a new vote. We had the hanging "chad" fiasco, Kerry claimed fraud and rigging in Ohio and wanted recounts, Al Gore is still SCREAMING HE GOT SCREWED IN FLORIDA!, some liberal democrats are still trying to file court briefs to invalidate the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 because they didn't like the outcome.

The above point Lemmy the Liberal and OAR if you out there listening to Al Franken...(ya start quoting that moron on here... might as well...you guys probably believe his daily diatribe)....no system is perfect and I think that for Iraq of have a 70% turnout (more than we had) is astonshing! But you lefty sycophants can't give anybody any credit unless they have a (D) after their name!