The Generals Rebel

[Goodwill]

[quote="fleaflicker";p="121987"][quote="Goodwill";p="121883"]"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!" -Patrick Henry

I don't see how this relates to the present day. Are you saying the present government has you shackled and repressed flea?


"If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too." -Somerset Maugham

Who do you think pays for all of the social programs? Yes its companies who turn a profit who in turn hire people to work and pay taxes.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

I got nothing to hide, if they want to listen in on a phone call so be it. Actually you should be more concerned with you local government taking your land and/or house for the good of the community. Your liberal buddies on the surpreme court allows that one.[/quote]

The people today pay more taxes to the American government than the colonists did when they rebelled. The only difference is that we are able to vote, but we are still stuck between voting for the lesser of two evils. One wants to take away guns, the other wants to repress certain groups of people and try and force Christianity down everybody's throat. Nobody is for making the government less powerful, when they can take your home and give it to a third party that will not use it to benefit the public, and a government that arrests people for exercising their personal right to peacably assemble and petition the government for redress (also known as protest). And according to the ninth amendment, I should have many of the rights (such as that to privacy and holding onto my home), I have had many of my rights taken. There's all kinds of gun control. There's many people (such as those in Guatanomo Bay) not even hearing the charges against, which is a fundamental right of ALL people. The government is taking the position that it grants people rights, not a higher power. And saying that is essential to being able to take them. So yes, the United State government is repressive.

The government also pays for many social programs, as well as companies, but the reason we have social security troubles is because the government often treats these programs like a bank that they are free to withdraw from. Companies pay for many social programs too. But how is that relevant to the Patriot Act?

And what I know about the Patriot Act is that it allows the government wider powers of search and seizure, and allows them to view records of what books you buy or get at the library. Many things that the government knows though (like they probably have a good idea about many things you buy) are illegal or downright unconstitutional (like the feds keeping an extensive database of who bought what guns in 27 participating states. Pennsylvania is one of them, but fortunately for me, Kentucky is not).

Now here's the crux: What you are telling me is that the threat of terrorism supercedes all your freedoms, and the government should be able to do whatever the hell they want as long as there is a snowball's chance that it might turn up a terrorist. So in essense, you are arguing for safety over freedom. That is why I ask you this, straight up: DO YOU VALUE SAFETY OR FREEDOM?

If you pick freedom, you need to look at what you are saying and take a deep look at what your values are, because you seem like a hypocrite to me. If you pick safety, you need to imagine the safest state that the government could provide for you. Wouldn't that be a police state? So answer me: FREEDOM OR SAFETY?[/quote]



I give the government no reason to check into my background. I live my life, do the things I like to do, pay my taxes and most importantly I don't support terrorists. so therefore my freedom is ensured.
I expect the government to provide safety in the form of the military. The government can't control some whacko car jacking my car and shooting me(I would blame it on Bush ;) everything is Bush's fault). If they can catch a phone call on Ismare and Baboo chatting about blowing up the Sears Tower I say get do it.


My answer is YES.

[fleaflicker]

LOL at Pale Rider. What topic did you want? I'm sure Coach must have a good reason for keeping you off here. He he he.

Analyst, you are right, there is no real extreme to either end. Extreme freedom is total anarchy without morals, and of course, that probably wouldn't work too well. Extreme safety wouldn't work too well either, as you would still have to take risks in getting meals delivered and eating and disposing of wastes, but living in a bank vault or something would be, in theory, extremely safe (if it could be done). Or perhaps a bomb shelter.

Thing is, I don't like the government trying to take away things, and that really goes for any government. Like at college, they have a free speech zone, where you really can't make free speech outside of that zone. Doesn't that infringe upon first amendment liberties? And all the gun control laws are against the second amendment. The inmates at Guatanamo aren't getting a trial or knowing what they are charged with, and that violates the fifth and sixth amendments, and if reports are correct about another set of terrorists suspects arrested in New York about not getting toilet paper for a month, the eighth amendment is gone too. The ninth amendment may as well not even be there, because the judges don't intrepret as implicitly giving certain liberties, but say that since such and such isn't explicitly outlined, it isn't a right. The fourth amendment has been violated many times. So far nobody I know has been forced into housing a soldier, so the third amendment hasn't been violated. Eminent domain on behalf of a corporation is another violation of fifth amendment rights. In other words, our government is screwing us all over the place. So in the long run, it isn't one thing or another that does it, but a combination of many things that ticks me off.

And Goodwill, forget it. Yes wasn't one of the two options. But you still tick me off in not thinking that the quotes of our founding fathers aren't relevent. After all, they tell us what they envisioned this country as being, and our government has violated their principles and everything else so many times it isn't funny. And they kicked out the English for far less than we're putting up with at current. So here's a hypothetical question that very much applies in today's world: When does a government become a tyranny?

[Goodwill]

Its ok flea ole buddy, my advice for you is to ask you Dad or sperm donor who the Sex Pistols are. Pick up the album "Anarchy in the UK"

Right ! now ! ha ha ha ha ha

I am an antichrist
I am an anarchist
Don’t know what I want but
I know how to get it
I wanna destroy the passer by cos i

I wanna be anarchy !
No dogs body

Anarchy for the u.k it’s coming sometime and maybe
I give a wrong time stop a trafic line
Your future dream is a shopping scheme cos i

I wanna be anarchy !
In the city

How many ways to get what you want
I use the best I use the rest
I use the enemy I use anarchy cos i

I wanna be anarchy !
The only way to be !

Is this the m.p.l.a
Or is this the u.d.a
Or is this the i.r.a
I thought it was the u.k or just
Another country
Another council tenancy

I wanna be an anarchist
Oh what a name
Get pissed destroy !


I was a rebel when I was a young jedi just like yourself flea oh yeah when you listen to the album everytime you hear the word "Queen" put in the word "bush" and wehn you hear "UK" put in "USA" you will be fine. Peace out

[fleaflicker]

Right.....

So what does being young have to do with this?
Actually, I got the impression from you that you were a young person that didn't appreciate their freedom.

[Goodwill]

Just what I figured flea you have a great deal to learn if you can't understand the meaning. Talk to me in 5 years when you have graduated from college or moved out of mom and dad's house.

[Pale Rider]

flea: That's the way it is, I guess, when I really hit someone hard with fact and truth, if someone doesn't like it, with board control, selectively censor me and others from posting. I did not get threads cancelled; I do not have any YELLOW CARDS against my account; I have not been issued ANY kind of warnings for improper conduct, and IF I was, I'M one of the first on here that's issued apologies when deserved if I was out of line. Deal

[fleaflicker]

Um, ok Pale Rider... What are you talking about?