Notre Dame didn't lose any games last year.

[The Ancient Enemy]

I'll refute this nonsense.

1. Joe Paterno is a bad guy - not a nice guy, not a "classy" guy. Not a statesman, not our friend. A rat. Think Moe Green.

Moe Green founded a city for military stopovers, in Mario Puzo's novel. That city is called Las Vegas. The similarities with Green are there, because Paterno turned a cow field into the 3rd biggest population in Pennsylvania 7 times a year. He built a university through sports revenue. That university is prestigious and does a tremendous amount of research that is fueled by Beaver Stadium. The difference between Moe Green and Joe Paterno is that at the end of the day Paterno will be left standing. "There is not even a statue of that man in that town", said Hyman Roth in the second Godfather movie. There will be statues of Joe Paterno in that town.

2. He hates Notre Dame with a passion. Think a latter-day Sicilian Fielding Yost. Every time there is a press issue with ND, Paterno is first in line with a negative quote, from when we made the deal with NBC to when we fired Ty.

The deal with NBC hurts all of college football. By showcasing teams that are not in conferences, it shows programs that it is okay to remain independent, and not share television revenue. That is fine if that's the way you want to do it. But those independent programs should NOT be allowed to participate in BCS revenue that is shared by CONFERENCE members. If Ohio State goes to the Orange Bowl, Indiana gets money from that. No one benefits from Notre Dame except Notre Dame. It is this selfish mentality that people in the know hate about Notre Dame. They are never team players. If OSU goes to a BCS game, Indiana gets money that is probably going to be used to bolster their own program. Indiana succeeding helps Ohio State in return, because the Big Ten shares bowl revenue. So if OSU gets 14 million for the Orange Bowl bid, and Indiana makes it to the Sheetz Bowl, they have money to share with everyone. Everybody goes home with money in their pocket.

3. Paterno is jealous of Notre Dame in the deepest emptiest part of his black soul - it goes way back. He wanted to be the team all the eastern urbanites followed but all people cared about was ND. It has always irked him. In 1974, he started off his Sunday morning coaches show about how great it was that USC beat Notre Dame and asking "Hows that feel all you Notre Dame fans?" Think of him getting into a fistfight with a ND alum he hates us so much. Think of him cursing and stalking Ricky Watters after he committed to ND. All true. He envies our unique and unapproachable status in the history and life of college football and he will never get over his resentment.

No Notre Dame coach is anywhere near Paterno's winning record. You can't deny that ND had great teams back in the day, and that they are the most prestigious college football program. However, that does not mean they are not overrated, decades later. I'm not gonna go into the spiel again about who they beat last year, and how poorly they really did perform, and how much credit they get for a mythical season that never took place in 2005. In reality, ND hasn't really been good since Holtz left. I think the resentment has more to do with how the media unfoundedly perceives ND than how Paterno feels about them personally. They simply are not that good, or at least haven't been, since about 1990.

4. He is petty and mean-spirited. He tubed the Syracuse and Pitt series because he was mad about them forming the Big East. Think about it, a football rivalry nearly 100 years old, very important to people all over Pa. and he stops it and refuses to continue it because he is mad at Pitt. Think of a mad old man ending the Auburn-Alabama, Mich-MSU, or Cal-Stanford game. Most schools other than PSU would have enough dignity, independence and sense of themselves not to let a coach destroy a rivalry of such significance. PSU is not such a school and Paterno is a very petty man. The school has such a weak sense of self that he dominates it in a way no other school would permit. Whatever he does gets rubber-stamped in Happy Valley and the Stalinesque worship of him in that remote hamlet has fed his intolerable ego and megalomania over the years.

They stopped playing Pitt because playing at Heinz is a Penn State home game in everything but revenue. I know this is hard to shallow, but if Pitt's objective is to prove a point, go prove it in Happy Valley, as much as PSU wants you to. I am still baffled as to how Pitt fans think that just because the game is at Heinz, that there will be an equal representation of both programs in the seats. You are out of your minds with that notion.

5. He is not a good sport or exemplar of the game. Think of him sprinting after and attacking Big Ten refs during the Iowa game a few years ago and ask yourself whether any Notre Dame coach would have survived that.

He did not "attack" the referee. I wonder how much ND fans would have liked Paterno if that instant replay of Bush illegally pushing Leinart into the endzone would have been reversed and ND won the game.

6. He is not an ethical model. Think about Dan Conner, a kid who harassed an invalid and played after "sitting out" meaningless time in meaningless games. Think about the felon who assaulted a police officer but played a whole season. Remember these things when Paterno quotes some Greek philosopher about integrity and glory. Think about whether Notre Dame would ever tolerate that.

I personally know a girl who was at a party on the Notre Dame campus whenever Julius Jones was going through academic troubles at Notre Dame. They straight-up admitted that the university was fixing things to keep him eligible. I'll keep my sources to myself, though, much like vman did with the Forest Hills comments he made. Dan Conner made prank phone calls. Who cares. And what player beat up a cop? Rashard Casey? That happened after the season.

7. He cares not a whit about education. PSU's players mostly major in something called "Parks and Recreation". The myth of Paterno and PSU caring about academics is just that. PSU is probaby the worst school in the Big Ten and that is saying something. PSU makes tOSU look like the Sorbonne and their players do nothing to stay eligible compared to what the players at a real school like ND have to do.

Read my last comment about Julius Jones. Every college has players who take the easy way out with their majors. Watch this upcoming season when they show the starting lineups on TV. It usually says their major. Why are there seniors in college who are still undecided? How is PSU the worst school in the Big Ten?

8. He is overrated as a coach. As I showed in statistical analysis elsewhere, Paterno has the lowest winning percentage against top ten teams of any of the most highly regarded coaches in history. He fattened up on weak eastern independents for twenty-five years and has played average ball once he had to face Big Ten competition.

What's Notre Dame done? What the hell did Bobby Bowden do for 20 years in the ACC before the expansion? Don't people remember how bad the ACC used to be?

9. PSU is not a "class" school and nobody here should "look forward" to the "renewal" of our series with them next year any more than we look forward to playing Purdue, Rutgers or any other lesser beings other than our true and classy rivals, the hated, but respected and mutually-respecting Trojans, who -- unlike Paterno or Michigan -- can comprehend and honor Notre Dame's greatness while glorying in their own and creating a great rivalry. PSU is a second-tier program with fans who dont even sell out the stadium when they suck. The formal term is frontrunners. Having grown up in Pa. I can tell you that Penn State fans are nowhere to be seen when they are having a down season and all of them envy Notre Dame so much that they become unintentionally green when discussing it. PSU is not a friend, not like us, and Paterno is not someone anybody from Notre Dame should like.

That is just not true. Like I have said before on here, knock Beaver Stadium down to 80,000 seats and then come tell me the attendance is down every week. Yes, ND is a real friend. They are looking to play weak opponents (this is straight from Kevin White's mouth) in an effort to do what??? BOLSTER THEIR RECORD. Wow, thanks, Notre Dame, as Florida International's athletic director, I am really just in awe that you chose us to play in your new scheduling system. What a true friend. Notice how ND pats USC on the back. I would too if they beat us every year. The truth is a beautiful thing.

10. All this stuff about Paterno being a great guy is the same hokum from the same sports media (ESPN, Keith Jackson et al) who brought you every other fallacy about college football that most rubes swallow. Notre Dame people are sporting and large-spirited by nature. We want to believe the best about things and look for nice stories and hope that others share our ethical and proper approach to college football. In the case of Paterno, those tendencies will lead you astray from the truth.

It is staggering how a ND fan can say those things about the media and not objectively look at his own school. Talk about jaded fans. How about Notre Dame's ATHLETIC DIRECTOR'S recent evidence of proper and ethical college football:

We are going to start scheduling more teams that are more conducive to success.

11. The proper thing for any real ND fan to do is to root for Paterno to lose every game. When he plays Michigan, the proper thing to do is to root for an unimpressive game and a stadium collapse, or a game ending handshake resulting in he and Lloyd Carr clawing at each others faces with their long, wizened fingernails.

Tell us more about how classy you are.

So lets not hear any more "isnt it great that nice old JoePa had a nostalgic season."

Joe Paterno doesn't do the play-calling, genius. They won those games because of the players and because of the 2 coordinators.


================================

How did Notre Dame fare since 2000, since this idiot has drawn attention to PSU's performance since then?

2000: 9-3 with Davie, annihalated 41-9 by Oregon State in the Fiesta Bowl.

2001: 5-6 with Davie, no bowl

2002: 10-3 with Willingam, blown out in the Gator Bowl by North Carolina State.

2003: 5-7 with Willingham

2004: 6-6 with Willingham, and destroyed again by Oregon State, this time in the Insight Bowl, as Stephen Jackson made ND look like a girl's JV defense.

2005: 9-3 with Weis, destroyed by Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl.


So what do we see here? Not only did they lose those bowl games, they got massacred in every one of them.

Notre Dame's record in last 8 bowl appearances? Don't forget, folks... 0-8.

So now ND is getting a ton of hype. Who recruited the kids that are supposed to win the national title this season? It sure as hell wasn't Charlie Weis. I thought Tyrone Willingham was a terrible recruiter? Wasn't that what some of you bozos tried to argue with me about?

Next.

[frostlion]

[quote="vman";p="124825"]
Well since I'll soon be outa touch for several days again....playing 36 holes in next couple days @ El Palomar Country Club (stunning views), fishing & diving off El Medano by Thursday morn... I thought I would share an ND's fan reaction for all you lil nitwitys; since Irish bashing seems to be your 2nd favorite sport. This is from a ND board...enjoy:
_____________________________________________________________

"I am reading some things here (nitwits posting on the Irish board) that are severe violations of orthodoxy and amount to inexcusable error. Since PSU has sucked this entire century, not much attention has been paid. Neophytes may not be familiar with Joe Paterno as anything other than a seemingly nice, ineffectual old man getting his **** kicked every week and hanging on for dear life. Those of us who have followed ND closely for years know differently. Lets get some things straight that are non-negotiable facts around here."

1. Joe Paterno is a bad guy - not a nice guy, not a "classy" guy. Not a statesman, not our friend. A rat. Think Moe Green.

2. He hates Notre Dame with a passion. Think a latter-day Sicilian Fielding Yost. Every time there is a press issue with ND, Paterno is first in line with a negative quote, from when we made the deal with NBC to when we fired Ty.

3. Paterno is jealous of Notre Dame in the deepest emptiest part of his black soul - it goes way back. He wanted to be the team all the eastern urbanites followed but all people cared about was ND. It has always irked him. In 1974, he started off his Sunday morning coaches show about how great it was that USC beat Notre Dame and asking "Hows that feel all you Notre Dame fans?" Think of him getting into a fistfight with a ND alum he hates us so much. Think of him cursing and stalking Ricky Watters after he committed to ND. All true. He envies our unique and unapproachable status in the history and life of college football and he will never get over his resentment.

4. He is petty and mean-spirited. He tubed the Syracuse and Pitt series because he was mad about them forming the Big East. Think about it, a football rivalry nearly 100 years old, very important to people all over Pa. and he stops it and refuses to continue it because he is mad at Pitt. Think of a mad old man ending the Auburn-Alabama, Mich-MSU, or Cal-Stanford game. Most schools other than PSU would have enough dignity, independence and sense of themselves not to let a coach destroy a rivalry of such significance. PSU is not such a school and Paterno is a very petty man. The school has such a weak sense of self that he dominates it in a way no other school would permit. Whatever he does gets rubber-stamped in Happy Valley and the Stalinesque worship of him in that remote hamlet has fed his intolerable ego and megalomania over the years.

5. He is not a good sport or exemplar of the game. Think of him sprinting after and attacking Big Ten refs during the Iowa game a few years ago and ask yourself whether any Notre Dame coach would have survived that.

6. He is not an ethical model. Think about Dan Conner, a kid who harassed an invalid and played after "sitting out" meaningless time in meaningless games. Think about the felon who assaulted a police officer but played a whole season. Remember these things when Paterno quotes some Greek philosopher about integrity and glory. Think about whether Notre Dame would ever tolerate that.

7. He cares not a whit about education. PSU's players mostly major in something called "Parks and Recreation". The myth of Paterno and PSU caring about academics is just that. PSU is probaby the worst school in the Big Ten and that is saying something. PSU makes tOSU look like the Sorbonne and their players do nothing to stay eligible compared to what the players at a real school like ND have to do.

8. He is overrated as a coach. As I showed in statistical analysis elsewhere, Paterno has the lowest winning percentage against top ten teams of any of the most highly regarded coaches in history. He fattened up on weak eastern independents for twenty-five years and has played average ball once he had to face Big Ten competition.

9. PSU is not a "class" school and nobody here should "look forward" to the "renewal" of our series with them next year any more than we look forward to playing Purdue, Rutgers or any other lesser beings other than our true and classy rivals, the hated, but respected and mutually-respecting Trojans, who -- unlike Paterno or Michigan -- can comprehend and honor Notre Dame's greatness while glorying in their own and creating a great rivalry. PSU is a second-tier program with fans who dont even sell out the stadium when they suck. The formal term is frontrunners. Having grown up in Pa. I can tell you that Penn State fans are nowhere to be seen when they are having a down season and all of them envy Notre Dame so much that they become unintentionally green when discussing it. PSU is not a friend, not like us, and Paterno is not someone anybody from Notre Dame should like.

10. All this stuff about Paterno being a great guy is the same hokum from the same sports media (ESPN, Keith Jackson et al) who brought you every other fallacy about college football that most rubes swallow. Notre Dame people are sporting and large-spirited by nature. We want to believe the best about things and look for nice stories and hope that others share our ethical and proper approach to college football. In the case of Paterno, those tendencies will lead you astray from the truth.

11. The proper thing for any real ND fan to do is to root for Paterno to lose every game. When he plays Michigan, the proper thing to do is to root for an unimpressive game and a stadium collapse, or a game ending handshake resulting in he and Lloyd Carr clawing at each others faces with their long, wizened fingernails.

So lets not hear any more "isnt it great that nice old JoePa had a nostalgic season."
_____________________________________________________________

Can't you feel the love. Can't wait for second week of Sept. or whenever this game is! ND 0-3 ??? I don't think so!! Hasta Luego Baby!
[/quote]


I really thought it was not possible for your posts to get any dumber. Congratulations. Your more stupid then I thought.

[vman]

[quote="frostlion";p="124830"]
I really thought it was not possible for your posts to get any dumber. Congratulations. Your more stupid then I thought.[/quote]

Frosty, Frosty, Frosty why you getting so frosty?
Did you miss this:

[quote="vman";p="124825"]
I thought I would share an ND's fan reaction for all you lil nitwitys; since Irish bashing seems to be your 2nd favorite sport. This is from a ND board...enjoy: [/quote]

I did not write this post. Just the messenger & I had to share with my nitty buddies. A little reading comprehension required!

And if I'm going to be tagged "more stupid" for posting something I didn't even write I can't resist the opportunity for an impromptu tutorial. Now this from the prof. - "Your more stupid then I thought."
As most regulars know YOUR is a possessive pronoun. I think you were looking for the contraction YOU'RE or YOU ARE would have worked nicely! I also believe THAN was the word you needed as opposed to THEN!

Off to the links! Did you know that when I hit a bad drive(bad slice @ times) in Mexico I yelled Quatro (Four) and all these people just looked @ me....got to the next tee & this local says to me in Spanish "Four what Gringo"... just told him it's a gringo thing!

[frostlion]

Thanks grammar Nazi. When we have a position open in the English Department, send me your vita. I'm sure you have never made a mistake in any of your lunatic posts.

Back to the point. For months you've done nothing except spew forth mindless nonsense about PSU; be it about their OCC schedule, JoePA, record against top 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 ranked teams, etc, and it's been refuted by countless posts. Not even your sPitt allies will come do your defense.

Someone (tm) mentioned Pennlive. I would suggest that is the perfect place for your kind of nonsense.

[vman]

Nonsense? Anything not Blue and White, you have issue with! That is nonsense!

Go to Pennlive...why? So you can rant on about Pitt & ND without response/challenge? This has to be the 4th post ripping ND and I give an Irish perspective & I'm a lunatic?? Sorry, I'm a Nitwits worst nightmare....
a Pitt & ND fan!

Re. these points: [quote="frostlion";p="124851"]
I'm sure you have never made a mistake in any of your lunatic posts.
Not even your sPitt allies will come do your defense.
[/quote]

I am very much aware that I make mistakes daily but fighting odds has never been an issue for me! Remember: Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor. It isn't easy being me Frosty, but it is the path I've chosen.

Hey, I'm off to El Medano & the Isla Ixtapa ( Paradise like) so I will literally be outa touch for 6,7 days but when I return I will reinforce some
"mindless nonsense about PSU" with easily researched FACT; a minor detail psuer's struggle with/ignore. Know you can't wait!

Que' le vaya bien!

And by the way I don't especially enjoy the Grammar Nazi role but when someone accuses me of being "Your more stupid then I thought", I can't resist! Adios!

[frostlion]

[quote="vman";p="124854"]
Nonsense? Anything not Blue and White, you have issue with! That is nonsense!

Go to Pennlive...why? So you can rant on about Pitt & ND without response/challenge? This has to be the 4th post ripping ND and I give an Irish perspective & I'm a lunatic?? Sorry, I'm a Nitwits worst nightmare....
a Pitt & ND fan!

Re. these points: [quote="frostlion";p="124851"]
I'm sure you have never made a mistake in any of your lunatic posts.
Not even your sPitt allies will come do your defense.
[/quote]

I am very much aware that I make mistakes daily but fighting odds has never been an issue for me! Remember: Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor. It isn't easy being me Frosty, but it is the path I've chosen.

Hey, I'm off to El Medano & the Isla Ixtapa ( Paradise like) so I will literally be outa touch for 6,7 days but when I return I will reinforce some
"mindless nonsense about PSU" with easily researched FACT; a minor detail psuer's struggle with/ignore. Know you can't wait!

Que' le vaya bien!

And by the way I don't especially enjoy the Grammar Nazi role but when someone accuses me of being "Your more stupid then I thought", I can't resist! Adios!
[/quote]

Anything not Blue and White is nonsense?

How is it "ripping" Notre Dame to state that their fanbase was estatic when Ty took over, as was the national media? They were each even more estatic too see him win the first 8 or 9 in a row, but only to lynch him from the tallest tree when it fell apart. Why is it "blue and white nonsense" to suggest that if the same thing happens to Saint Charlie (meaning a few losses and a bad year or two) that the same will not happen, meaning Charlie gets sacked??

Oh, and when you align yourself with those who suggest or state that Joe Paterno is less than an honorable person (meaning you copy and past their lunatic posts), then you are an idiot. You Pitt fans can moan and groan, snot and snort, piss and moan, thump and paw, etc; but the bottom line is that he has done more for the state of Pennsylvania than any Pitt coach, fan, alumni, or anything else in history.

[once a runner]

[quote="frostlion";p="124865"]the bottom line is that he has done more for the state of Pennsylvania than any Pitt coach, fan, alumni, or anything else in history.[/quote]
Wow, I can't let this one go. I don't suppose you ever heard of Jonas Salk? Salk led a virus research lab at Pitt where all he did was find a vaccine for polio. Shall we debate if winning football games can be considered "doing more for Pennsylvania" than saving millions of lives?

My mistake if you were only referring to football, but when you said "anything else in history", it made it sound as if you meant everything at Pitt.

[Captain Coveman]

I vote for the Pitt guy on this one unless Paterno finds a cure for diabetes soon.

[frostlion]

Salk is a Pitt Alum? Huh, I didn't know that one. I stand corrected.

As we all know, JoePa will be the first to find a cure for dying.

[once a runner]

Salk is not a Pitt alum, but he did his work on the polio vaccine there. Just as Paterno is not a PSU alum, but that is where he has done his work.