Joe must Go.

[deliverance]

You guys bring up some great points. Penn State is content with winning anywhere from 7-10 games every season. That's their major problem. The top notch programs aren't happy to win 10 games in a season anymore. They want more. They want a BCS win over a great team. They want to play for a National Championship. In some seasons, winning 10 games is not enough at a great College Football school. Should you cry and complain about it? No. However, when you feel like you should go undefeated, losing two home games is very disappointing. You're going to have complaints. There's absolutely no reason why this Penn State team should not have went undefeated going into their Bowl game. Even had they lost one game, I think fans would not mind near as much. This was the year they had a legitimate to go undefeated and make the big game. Who knows when the next time might be? It could be one or two years or it could be ten. When you have an opportunity to do something special like PSU had this year, you don't want to see it blown by losing two home games, especially, when they were the only two high quality opponents on their schedule.

[WPIAL~Titan]

Infighting among Nitters, a beautiful thing.

I hope that JokePa never dies and stays forever. When he passes away, he is going to will the job to his son, the heir apparent, JAYPA...and you all will be sentenced to 50 more years of a JoePa clone.

[The Ancient Enemy]

Titan,

Please post Joe's record again versus top ranked opponents.

Now, when everyone sees that record, do you think it is a personnel issue or does the pattern shed light on poor preparation in big games? Listen: when teams make the same exact mistakes over lineages of players, who is at fault? Do not blame Daryll Clark or Anthony Morelli.

[WPIAL~Titan]

GLADLY, TAE...


PSU's road record vs. OOC opponents since 2000: 2W-6L

Last ranked OOC opponent played: Notre Dame 41 PSU 17...and it was 41-3 until PSU scored 2 TDs late...


PSU records vs. select opponents since joining the Big preTENd in 1993...

tOSU 6-11
Iowa 5-7
MIch 5-10
Wisky 6-6

TOTAL 22W-34L

This is even better...PSU's record vs. select big preTENd opponents since 2000...

tOSU 3-7
Iowa 1-6
Mich 2-6
Wisky 4-4

TOTAL 10W-23L

Take out Wisky and PSU's record against tOSU, MIch, and Iowa is a paltry 6-19 since 2000.

PSU gets FAT vs. the underbelly of college football...When they play real teams, they get exposed for what they are, which is a slightly above average team in an overrated average-at-best major D1 conference.

[abpk2903]

The problem is with the "we want more" idea is that you will never be satisfied. If Penn State was like USC and won every big game they were suppose to but lost to Washington, Stanford, Oregon State, etc. you would be pissed as well. Penn State should not have went undefeated this season. They rebuilt an entire offensive line, WR corps, defensive line, and secondary. Not to mention 2 of their 3 starting LB's missed substantial time this season. TAE, I'm not the one bitching, and I don't need to rate my predictions against all the preseason magazines to make myself think I am an expert. I feel personally that a 10 win season is successful this season and you throwing all your credentials on this board isn't going to change it. I am not even defending Joe Paterno on this one and I was very disappointed to see him punt the ball at the end of the game like he did. Back to my original point, you did not post this whenever his win the game 10-7 strategy has worked in the past. Look at OSU 2005 and 2007. It worked against Tennessee and Florida State in bowl games.

[The Ancient Enemy]

No, they SHOULD have went undefeated this season. Ohio State is down compared to recent years, and so is Michigan. Combine that with 4 complete garbage OOC games, and you have a huge opportunity to win 12 games even in a down year yourself!

It is human nature to take a look at things more so when you are losing than winning. But the patterns have been there for years: he changes his approach when big games are on the slate. Do you seriously disagree with me that the team plays more confidently when they play "bad" teams? That's because the staff runs the offense. That's b/c they allow Wallace and Lynn to challenge the WRs. That's because they allow the LBs to blitz. This **** is nothing new w/ Paterno. The difference now is that ppl are starting to get fed up. The defenders of Joe are starting to speak up more. Here: http://www.pennlive.com/columns/patriot ... 1#continue

Tell me that isn't true.

The Spread HD offense is lipstick on a pig, ABPK. Doesn't "Spread" entail SPREADING? What happened to the shotgun formation? What happened to all this wonderful WR depth? They run it when they play Purdue and disregard it when they play Iowa. Why? Why do you stop doing the things that make teams fear you? They played OSU (a watered down OSU, a team you rarely catch being watered down) and tried to win 6-3. Please justify their defensive approach. All I want you to do is explain to be how you can expect to beat a dual-threat QB 6-3.

I will be satisfied when they are splitting games with Ohio State, and playing at their potential versus other top teams. There should be at least a 50% chance of success versus teams ranked ahead of them or close to them. Not this "well, Rip Engle said we should let the defense win and run 3 dives and punt" garbage.

[abpk2903]

The problem you are missing here is this is just more than a football coach fix. I am at this university daily and everything here is about 1 thing, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. They do not care about anything else. The education system here is getting worse year by year, yet they keep accepting more applicants. The university is full up here and they keep removing common areas for more dorms. They try to live up to the "party school" idea to draw students and have succeeded at it and was rated #1, yet they also rated #1 in least amount of homework. This university cares as much about the football program as it does its students which is none. Football is used here for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only to draw more students and money to the university. The point is it does not matter who is patrolling the sidelines things will not change here. This is a public university that has a tuition of over $12K for in state students and is having a 4.5% increase. Do you really think they care about W's and L's? Do you really think Paterno is the only one that is worried about having 8 home games?

Look at some of the ridiculous things they have done to just football fans this year:
-Scheduled 4 awful OOC opponents
-Eliminated tailgaiting for homecoming weekend due to a covering of snow at a university that is known for its turf management programs
-Raised student ticket prices 100% in the last 2 years
-Eliminated use of glass bottles at tailgates
-Implemented a new ticket policy for students that has had awful reviews since the beginning of the year.

This all has just happened in the last year. The problems here go way deeper than Paterno. The university doesn't care about the paying customer so why should we care about them?

[The Ancient Enemy]

I'm okay with them scheduling a I-AA school. I am however not okay with them playing FIU over Troy. I am not okay with them playing Akron over Central Michigan. I understand that you can't play USC, VTech, Florida, and Texas in your OOC games; Its the selection of the WORST team in the conference that irritates me. Wouldn't this team have been better served to play South Florida over Syracuse? CMU over Akron?

I think the article I linked has a lot of valid points. The money the program generates is more of a factor than what the writer states, though. 8 home games is MAYBE okay if you are scheduling Pitt and Richmond instead of Syracuse and Coastal Carolina.

What I was getting at before was that YES Penn State has tremendous youth right now on both sides. You combine that with a very, very weak schedule and a very, very watered down OSU and Michigan, and there's reason to believe that even though PSU THEMSELVES are a little watered down compared to last season, they still should have gone undefeated. The only game on that schedule that should have been a potential loss was Ohio State.

But...

They lose to Iowa for the 199th straight season. There's simply no excuse anymore. Kirk Ferentz beats Joe Paterno all the time because Ferentz knows that, even though he is ALWAYS outmatched in personnel, Joe will play it very tight and try to win 6-4. Ferentz is a guy who is very perceptive. He has been ahead of the Paterno curve since the 90s. Tressel also knows how Joe does things in big games. Lloyd Carr beat Paterno 9 or 10 times in a row!!!!!

Can you honestly say it was personnel? No. It was not EVER personnel in those Iowa games. It was the approach, it was the preparation, it was the fact that the assistant coaches beat their heads against the wall every time a big game pops up, because they know exactly what Joe is going to try and do.

How can you look at his record and say "there's no pattern, its coincidence"? No it isn't!!! There has to be a disconnect, APBK. Look this happens to all coaches sooner or later in every sport: you get old. Time passes and the game passes. Its like Motley Crue said, "Now it's time for change."

[abpk2903]

I think where we disagree on this is not whether or not we are satisfied at where Penn State is at because I think we both would say no. But I think you are more optimistic about what will happen with a change, whereas I think that the programs darkest years are ahead. I think that this program will struggle for about a decade when Paterno leaves. No matter who is hired they will not live up to expectations. If it is someone hired in the system then the issue of jealously is generated. Every assistant on that staff wants te job and only one can get it. How will the other coaches react? If Penn State hires outside the system then PSU will have the same problems that Michigan is currently having and Notre Dame has been having for over a decade. Alumni will not be patient enough for a new guy to get his system (coaches, players, mentality) implemented before 80% of the fans are calling for his head.

I have come to not expect a national championship every year. There many historically elite programs a lot worse than Penn State right now. Georgia, Auburn, Tennessee, Nebraska, Florida State, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc. all are in tough times. I just think that Paterno needs to be given to the end of this contract then be evaluated. If the team goes 9-3 next year then maybe its time to pull the trigger but this is a team that still has realistic possibilities of going to 3 BCS games in 5 years that includes 2 Big Ten championships. My point is that if that is not good enough, what will happen when the new coach comes in and wins 10 games in 2 years?

[The Ancient Enemy]

I think you bring up a really great point here. Many, actually.

The university cannot afford to have the program tank. Success is not an option, it has to be a reality. See, Ham and I know that Penn State has all the pieces to become as strong of a program as USC and Florida. You basically need elite facilities, a rabid fanbase, and the desire to be the best. We know PSU has 2 of those. The last one... I am unsure.

The recruiting can't get much better, either. But to have the depth to challenge the Ohio States and Oklahomas and Texases every year, you need sustained recruiting at a high level. What those programs have are tremendous depth. Penn State can get there. Other schools I am not sure they have the capacity.

Let's look at some of the problems with those programs you mentioned.

Michigan: they hired a guy who's system was a million percent different than Carr's. He fired every assistant. Since day 1, Dick Rod pissed everyone off in Ann Arbor. There is absolutely no question that if he is given time he will build a powerhouse. But the in flux of HIS players mixed with Carr's has not been smooth. They have tremendous defensive problems, and to combat that, they hired the biggest hack in college football: Greg Robinson. The Dick Rod era needs time to develop. In all seriousness, I don't think the Michigan family will allow him enough time to get to the top. My opinion on his hiring is that the system was too different and the transition was inherently painful.

Notre Dame: Bob Davie was a good coach but not good hire on the back of the Holtz era. Holtz is an idiot but he's charasmatic. Davie definitely isn't. He is not a Bobby Bowden type that can go into a 5-star recruits house and make the kid's mother blush. The next hire was Willingham, who inherited very little talent. Willingham is a wonderful human being but an incredibly lazy recruiter. Even still, the Zbykowski/Quinn/Smardja class was loaded. Weis was a super hot commodity. The initial hiring was not necessarily bad. But Weis is a joke, and sometimes it doesn't matter how great the recruiting is if the staff is terrible. The guy who takes over after Weis inherits a ton of talent. The Weis hiring is just proof that things don't always work out. Were they wrong for firing Willingham? No. He is a 9-3 coach at best (or close to it).

Nebraska: Solich is a great coach but he is not Tom Osbourne. This is going to be Tom Bradley in a few years, mark my words. 9-3 seasons are not going to cut it at schools like this. They fired Solich and hired a guy who just went to the Super Bowl. Only problem w Callahan was that, like Dick Rod, the adjstment to his offense with the old set of players is inherently time consuming. In addition, Callahan is an unlikeable character. Charles Woodson said on live ESPN that recruits better take his advice and steer clear of Nebraska. The guy had a ton of enemies bc of his personality. It was never a good hire. Now, I think Pellini will take over the BXII North. They are on the right track.

Auburn: The rumblings about them wanting to replace Tuberville will abolsutely insane. This is, in my opinion, the worst and most corrupt program in the country. I wish Auburn nothing but heartache. Tuberville resigned bc the university beat him down until he hired Tony Franklin as OC. Franklin, like Dick Rod and Bill Callahan, was shoving a square peg in a round hole. It just does not work this quickly. Auburn deserves to have a decade of heartbreak with how they handled Tuberville.

Florida State: Bobby is an old man. Mickey Andrews and Chuck Amato are old men. Its been time to change regimes for years.

The point I am making is that things are always cyclical in sports and you have to accept new coaches and down swings sometimes. But... What you CAN do, is minimalize it. Michigan, ND, Nebraska, etc all made bad hires in the sense of "current roster vs future roster". None of those transitions were as seemless as they could have been.

I also do not think it is fair for me to b!tch without offering a solution. I personally feel that Bradley will be the Solich of the east. Then what? Maybe its time to go outside the program.

That being said, I personally feel that Turner Gill is the candidate best suited. This guy has many pluses. He's young, very enthusiastic, has a fire, has the respect and love of every kid he coaches, he is able to recruit nationally to lowly Buffalo, he won the MAC with what 3 years ago was the worst program in the nation, he is of high moral character which is what is what PSU is all about. In addition to that, the cupboard at Penn State is completely loaded as of 2011. Gill is not going to try to implement brash offensive or defensive changes that would jeopardize the susbtantial talent on the Penn State roster.

Not Brian Kelly, not Gary Patterson, my choice for an outside candidate is Turner Gill.