North Korea=PSU FOOTBALL PROGRAM

[WPIAL~Titan]

According the the AG, Joe met the minimum LEGAL obligation for reporting what he knew to his superiors...

...However, I would have expected so much more in terms of him meeting a MORAL obligation, especially given the fact that in his egomaniacial books, he is the self-proclaimed, sanctimonious inventor of morality and the ultimate "do-gooder" as it applies to college football and the Penn State University as well.

As a PSU cult member, I would hope that you would have expected so much more as well, yet you seem satisfied that he kicked the whole thing to the AD, after admitting that he knew that something of a sexual nature was reported to him...After waiting until Monday morning because he didn't want to disturb Curley's weekend, no less.

Wouldn't a true moral leader, much less one who so arrogantly sets himself above the Switzers and Sherrills of the world, go with McQueary to the authorities, and be a support to him as he made an official report to children services and the PA State Police?

Joe was part of the problem, not part of the solution. He even so much as admitted it publicly, until he lawyered up. The rest of the civilized world outside of the PSU cult cloister can see Paterno's moral transgression very clearly.

[KirkHerbstreit]

Titan your obsession with Penn State isn't 2 months old. Your existence on this board exists strictly for everything Penn State. So, I don't think dadw2sons is referring to just this situation. He does make a good point I wonder how many of your posts are made on the company clock at shaler. Maybe we should post your name on here and dig into your closet to see how clean and pure you are.

[WPIAL~Titan]

Kirk, I post about Penn State to provide a contrary opinion to the cult. It's only since early November that what I post about the cult has been codified as truth. So then the real issue here has become your obsession with ME. What you post is laughable, inaccurate.

BTW, Kirk, PSU should just hire Tom Bradley already. They're getting "thanks but no thanksed" by everyone. I do agree with one point you make in another thread: PSU CAN find a coach...It's just WHO they will find for the price range that they want. PSU throwing around all of the big names is ridiculous...Meyer, Cowher, Dungy...I heard Tressel is available. All jokes aside, he might not be a bad choice at this point. Tressel would certainly be an upgrade in the morality department than what PSU had previously. So would Saban. The question is: Will they pay? PSU needs to keep in mind the vast amount of money that will be paid to attorneys and victims in civil suits in the coming 3-5 years. It could be into the 9 digits. They will also pay if Sandusky pulls an OJ and is found not guilty...Then, PSU will be paying 9 digits to Sandusky, Curley, Paterno, etc. Regardless of the legal outcome, the whole deal will be costing the university. Big time.

[dadw/2sons]

Kirk is right. I am NOT just talking about this scandal involving Joe, Sandusky, or whoever else you want to include. I have been on this site for many years under different names and have witnessed your obsessions with tearing down PSU over that whole time. I have been told by a source that you Titan are a district six grad of PC and now is a superintendent at Shaler. Do you deny that? You are right I don't know you personally, but if this is your passion to get on a site just to spew the venom you do towards PSU then yes I question your ability to be a leader of kids in the public school system. I am NOT a PSU occult member. If you look at my posts you will I don't post much. I just use this sight for entertainment purposes to laugh at people like yourself that has nothing else to do in life, but to brag about how much they know about sports or certain issues. Again I'm NOT defending Joe or anybody else at PSU, but I do have a question. If one of your teachers call the authorities on something they see without going through the proper channels of telling their bosses what would you do? Or better yet, if a teacher in your school district told their supervisor and the supervisor didn't carry through with the knowledge, who would you be upset with, the teacher or the supervisor? Just wondering??

[WPIAL~Titan]

Your source is inaccurate. I've been told by a source that you are a graduate of Forest Hills High School who was cut from every team you tried out for, and who was the manager for the PSU Blue Band and now holds PSU football season tickets. Do you deny that? I have also been told by a source that Bear Bryant and Vince Lombardi are making a deal with God to be reincarnated to take over the PSU football program, and God is considering it because he's a PSU fan who made the sky blue and white. My source is extremely reliable.

Glad you use this SIGHT for entertainment, I use my SIGHT to look at things. I use this SITE in much the same way that you claim to use this SIGHT (whatever that is) and have succeeded in getting you to make this more about ME than it is about the ISSUE of the original topic which compares PSU to North Korea. You have your opinion and I have my opinion. If you really want to impress me, get smart and refute my original post where I compare PSU to North Korea. I'd love to see your response.

I have had some excellent discussions with posters like The Ancient Enemy, where we have been at total opposite ends of the spectrum with opinions, but in the end it was never personal and nobody really cared. I had a vehement disagreement with another longtime poster here and have become good friends with him and remain as such to this day. At times, I even see sanity and logic in KirkHerbstreit and abpk's posts, even though they blew gaskets in this thread. I know they are avid PSU football fans and that they are hurting right now. I am sure it is difficult to deal with the fact that as a fan of a major college football program like PSU and an iconic God-like man that you believe in, one that you believe to be 100% squeaky clean, your world as you know it has come crumbling down in the worst possible, most scandalous way.

If this scandal happened at Pitt, I'd be equally as devestated for ths children first and also as a fan of the university that I love. My opinion is that this whole aura of moral superiority that has been fostered and thrust in the faces of sports fans across America by Joe Paterno and the PSU fanbase under the guise of "Success with Honor" and "The Grand Experiment" are not lies. The moral superiority intimated in such myths are not lies because they never existed in the first place...Paterno was merely the wizard in the Wizard of Oz...All smoke, mirrors, empty legends, and folklore. I believe that deep down, many of even the most avid PSU football fans know this and I am sure that's tough to take. Of course, there will be some who will never see it.

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing in our great country. I have some strong opinions about PSU football and Joe Paterno and have been a poster on this website and a few others for years. It's been a hobby of mine, and the past 6 weeks have bene particularly active since PSU football and Paterno has been exposed as not at all as squeaky clean as it has been portrayed by the cult leader and cult members. This has confirmed what both I and thousands and thousands of others across America have known for decades. My real hobby as it relates to this is that I am a novice sportswriter on the side and occasionally even use this messageboard (among others) to provoke thoughts and ideas.

The reality is that there are many wonderful folks who I know/are related to who have been PSU educated who share my exact thoughts. They are devestated that the good name of their alma mater has been forever stained because one man and one program had too much power. These good PSU folks believe that when given the chance to be a hero in 2002, Paterno was an abysmal moral failure despite meeting the minimal legal obligations. Google some editorials on the subject, and you'll find many more editorials that follow my thinking than the thinking of the PSU cult.

There are many other PSU faithful who are in denial. Some others are saying "wait for the truth to come out." As dadw/2sons says: Will we ever really know the full and complete truth? Probably not. I have a good friend who is a lawyer (A PSU fan by the way, who also bleeds blue and white) who steadfastly believes that there is no possible way that at least a small amount of the very dam*ing GJ report won't stick..and all it takes is one conviction on one count of this horriffic behavior. He also fully believes that many key people knew and that it won't be hard to assume an institutional cover-up, although it will be difficult to pinpoint individals because so many fingers will be pointing everywhere.

Regardless of the final outcome, what a tragedy this whole thing has been for the children whose lives may have been forever altered because of the actions of a monster and the inaction of so many key people. When I say inaction of key people, I am not just talking about Paterno. I am talking about Paterno, Curley, Shultz, Spanier, the local and state police, Gricar, McQueary, Reykovitz, and even Sandusky's own wife. I am not righteous enough to admit that a mistake or two couldn't have been made, but it boggles my mind how so many folks seemingly knew of both the 1998 and 2002 investigations and allegations and nothing was really done, other than cursory things like telling Sandusky not to bring young children onto campus.

When you truly look at just how many people dropped the ball, who refused to pursue the allegations, or who flat out wanted this covered up its unfathomable, unconscionable, and defies all sense of morals and logic.

Although I may sound like it, this coverup runs deeper than Paterno...With that said, I would ask this question: Of all the folks mentioned in the coverup, who had the most power and influence? I think everyone knows the answer. Clearly, Paterno did. We all know this to be true. Paterno had 'superiors" in name and title only. Had Paterno stood up and spoke, people would have listened. Instead, he cowardly pushed the problam up the chain of command.

I think Paterno knew he failed miserably, or he never would have made the comments that he did before he lawyered up. Paterno stated that this was "one of the great sorrows of his life" that he wishes he "had done more." Is this REALLY one of his great sorrows, or is he just sorrowful that this whole tragedy came to light and exposed him, his image, and the PSU brand name as a fraud? I think it's both. Will we really ever know the answer? This could be discussed forever. Many books will be written on the subject. Sadly, money will be made on books, movies, interviews, etc. Child protection laws throughout the world will be revamped because of the terrible way this was handled by PSU. This tragedy and the PSU name will forever be synonomous with how NOT to handle a child abuse case. However, regardless of who is at fault, the real tragedy is the children who were "allegedly" affected.

In addition, thousands of others outside of central PA share the same opinions, and some do not. Hundreds of sportswriters have written editorials mirroring what I say in many of my posts. In the end, it should make for spirited discussion...but also at the end of the day, it is all rooted in opinion, so who really cares? You don't care about my opinion, just about me and about creating myths in your own mind about who I am and what I am all about personally and "professionally", which I find amusing.

My suggestion to those of you who don't like what I write and consider it rubbish, simply move on and don't read or respond to it...or better yet, go join the BWI McAndrew Message Board and post away with the rest of the PSU football brainwashed, like-thinking and like-acting cult bretheren.

Either way, I don't give a darn what you think you are entitled to.

[dadw/2sons]

AAH The new year. I was going to allow Titan to have the last word and move on, since he said I was wrong with his profile. However, the mistake I made was that, you are the principal at Shaler instead of supertindent. My mistake. How accurate is that? You however aren't close with your guesses. I did not graduate from FH, I did not attend PSU, and I did letter in football and baseball in high school. One thing that we have had in common is that I also once was a sportswriter, I see that you avoided my question about the teacher reporting what he saw to his supervisors, probably to avoid the ties to a public school setting.

Titan, I made my posts personally to you because you want to draw the attention to yourself. You don't posts comments like this thread to spark opinions you do it to draw attention. How else can you explain comparing a college football scandal to a country that has taken civil rights away from their citizens for years. Including physical torture and even murder. The scandal at PSU is disturbing, but you are being very insensitive to the many people who have suffered in this communist nation.

You are right in one way. I used to be a PSU cult member, but I opted out when Joe handled the Tom Bill incident the way he did. I'm sure you know who he is since you are an expert in PSU history and the affairs that happen there. You might even have him listed on your long list of mishaps that have happened at PSU. Foe some of the younger readers I will try to recall the incidents to the best of my knowledge. If I am inaccurate, I apologize, but it seems to me the story goes like this. Tom was a strong armed quarterback that was an on again off again starting QB at PSU. He also was the young man who PSU/State College police found lying in the gutter in drunken state on at least 2 occasions. Joe's response to the situation was that the young man needed the team more than the team needed hi. He went on to win some games for PSU, but as for me that is when I noticed that Joe wanted to win at some costs to his own reputation. Joe stayed away from sanctions from the NCAA unlike many of the coaches he has competed against.

His reputation has taken a BIG hit with his actions now in this scandal So there you have it Titan. See if you will deny my guesses and opinions about this post and about you yourself.

Happy New Year!!

[WPIAL~Titan]

Still wrong with your guess, dad. Keep checking those reliable sources of yours.
I do recall the Tom "Bar" Bill incident well. That is one of many where Paterno was lax with his discipline. Yet, the cult failed to see this. I credit you for leaving the cult. I guess allowing Bill to play was all part of Joe's Grand Experiment..or was it Success With Honor??
My comparison to North Korea was perhaps at first glance a bit extreme, but there are some similarities to the leadership style of the now deceased NK leader and Paterno. It also appears that, as with North Korea, there may very well have been some torture that was enabled by incompetent leadership right on the PSU campus. Maybe not as extreme a comparison as you might think, sad as it may be.

[say_oww]

Pointing fingers at Titan is pathetic. What all of you should do is to look in the mirror and ask if you would react the same way if Sandusky raped your son. Or sadly, if the guy you TRUSTED as CEO of your billion dollar company just made a nine-figure mistake.

Make no mistake fellas, Paterno wasn't an innocent bystander. In the end, he was treated the same way as any other CEO in corporate America. What happened occured on his watch as CEO of the PSU Football Factory, therefore he must take the fall. Paterno had no problem taking the credit for all of the positives over the last 40 years. He also had no problem taking credit for the last 80 or so victories, victories where he was only a figurehead. Sometimes, turnabout is fair play. Removing Paterno's face from coffee mugs and hoodies is just the beginning. For Penn State, the full ramifications of what Paterno blindly failed to report haven't even begun to be felt. For Sandusky's victims, the ramifications will never end.

Regardless of how many attacks are mounted on Titan due to his his umm, "obsession", this scandal isn't going to just fade away. Decent human beings everywhere are aghast and left to wonder when the PSU cult will finally stop attacking the critics, media, and anyone else who dare comment on this scandal.

[abpk2903]

Say Oww you thoughts have more holes than swiss cheese.

You ask if it was your son, well the parents of these victims did know about some of the "things" that were happening so obviously they didn't handle these things as well as they should. Secondly, at what point does self-accountability come in? At the point of this scandal breaking a lot of the victims were as old as their mid-20's. Where were they at to stop it? What about their parents? Where was the DA? The governor of the state? The executives of the second mile? The University police? Mike McQueary? Mike McQueary's father? The head of the university police? Tim Curley? Graham Spainer?

These were all people that knew just as much if not more than Paterno did about the incident. Why were all the stones thrown at one man who at this point is the only one that reported it to any type of authorities? The problem everyone let the media smoke and cloud up the actual story. Read the grand jury report and there is like 2 paragraphs out of a 23 page report that even implies Paterno. You really see the intelligence (or lack there of) of somebody by how easily they are manipulated by the media.

Tell me what grounds the university had to fire Paterno. You claim that if he was a CEO he would have been fired but I disagree. If he was a CEO (and not somebody who loves the university that fired him) he would have some serious litigation opportunity. I honestly can not figure out the grounds in which Paterno was fired. Was he fired because the superiors he reported the incident to did not do anything about it? Or was it because he is 84 years old? Or was it because people wanted him out and seen him as an easy target at the time?

Seriously I challenge you to name one violation that could hold up in court that he was fired due to.

There now I'll point the fingers at you.

[say_oww]

Say Oww you thoughts have more holes than swiss cheese.

You ask if it was your son, well the parents of these victims did know about some of the "things" that were happening so obviously they didn't handle these things as well as they should. Secondly, at what point does self-accountability come in? At the point of this scandal breaking a lot of the victims were as old as their mid-20's. Where were they at to stop it? What about their parents? Where was the DA? The governor of the state? The executives of the second mile? The University police? Mike McQueary? Mike McQueary's father? The head of the university police? Tim Curley? Graham Spainer?

These were all people that knew just as much if not more than Paterno did about the incident. Why were all the stones thrown at one man who at this point is the only one that reported it to any type of authorities? The problem everyone let the media smoke and cloud up the actual story. Read the grand jury report and there is like 2 paragraphs out of a 23 page report that even implies Paterno. You really see the intelligence (or lack there of) of somebody by how easily they are manipulated by the media.

Tell me what grounds the university had to fire Paterno. You claim that if he was a CEO he would have been fired but I disagree. If he was a CEO (and not somebody who loves the university that fired him) he would have some serious litigation opportunity. I honestly can not figure out the grounds in which Paterno was fired. Was he fired because the superiors he reported the incident to did not do anything about it? Or was it because he is 84 years old? Or was it because people wanted him out and seen him as an easy target at the time?

Seriously I challenge you to name one violation that could hold up in court that he was fired due to.

There now I'll point the fingers at you.

Seriously??? You are blaming the victims. That is convenient, especially when most of the them were poor kids without a father. Can you be any more insensitive????

You can defend Paterno all you want, but it really makes no sense. None, whatsoever. Paterno doesn't even coach football, and hasn't for years. His assistants have been doing all of the work and getting none of the credit while he walks around like a God. Yeah, that's honorable. Paterno has the all-time coaching wins record, but he actually didn't coach the last five or six years. And he wasn't even on the field for 25 games due to health issues, but he still gets credit for those? How is that honorable??? And where is the integrity in that line of reasoning??? As I said previously, any large corporation where this would have gone down would have had the same outcome. Face it, Paterno f***** up due to his own arrogance and hypocrisy. Since when is not following up to insure that his former associate isn't raping kids considered honorable???? Where is the integrity in that? The jury of his peers agrees by an overwhelming margin that Paterno, the University president, and all of the football staff should be punished for begetting a culture that encouraged everyone look away due to fear, greed, and ego while young boys were systematically raped.

You ask why single out Paterno - here is why - he ran the show. The show which claimed nothing but honor and integrity, while everything around was really nothing but a sham.

You keep defending him and his associates, and all you do is make this entire situation look even more pathetic.