D6 Seedings
-
WPIAL~Titan
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 3837
- Joined: September 5th, 2003, 6:15 pm
- Location: Titan Town, PA
Re: D6 Seedings
Crimson, you think the WPIAL system of seeding teams for their playoffs is better???????????????
I strongly disagree. I also disagree with only having the top 4 teams in each section (plus all ties if the teams split with tied teams) as the criteria for making WPIAL playoffs.
For example WPIAL AAAA section 3 this year was BRUTAL, as well as last year. In this year's brackets released just an hour ago, the WPIAL awarded the top 3 teams in section 3 the 1 (New Castle), 2 (North Allegheny), and 3 (Hampton) seeds!
Last year, FIVE teams from that section made the elite 8 quarterfinals (Shaler, North Al, Butler, Seneca Valley, and Pitts CC)...and Butler, who made the semis, got into the playoffs on the final day of the season on a buzzer beater, just to tie for 4th place!
Honestly, any of the 8 teams in section 3 AAAA this season, including Pine Richland, North Hills, Butler, and Shaler would have finished at least 4th and made the playoffs in ANY OTHER AAAA SECTION. Thus, under the current system the best teams in WPIAL AAAA DO NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. The 5th place team in WPIAL AAAA section 3 (Pine-Richland) may very well have won Section 1.
In terms of seeding the WPIAL basketball playoffs, a bunch of folks who know little about basketball (and just a few who do know something) sit around in a room and play the whose-toe-is-bigger game to try and get their area teams the best seeding they can. It is a JOKE. The WPIAL also used the absolutely idiotic Follow-The-Winner system to determine PIAA bids instead of playing consys. Basically, if the WPIAL gets 7 PIAA bids such as in AA, here's how it works...
7-1 is the champ
7-2 is the runner-up
7-3 is the team who lost to 7-1 in the semis
7-4 is the team who lost to 7-2 in the semis
7-5 is the team who lost to 7-1 in the quarters
7-6 is the team who lost to 7-2 in the quarters
7-7 is the team who lost to 7-3 in the quarters
7-8 would be the team who lost to 7-4 in the quarters
This is a joke and wrong on so many levels. This system is the lazy man's system for determining PIAA bids. It flies in the face of competition and prohibits teams from EARNING the PIAA bids. I have seen many solid teams upset in the quarters miss out on a PIAA bid. I have seen teams that do not deserve PIAA biods make teh tourney. The WPIAL's rationale is to "give the easiest path of the WPIAL champ and runner up through the western bracket." Thus, the WPIAL actually WANTS weaker teams in the PIAA bracket to reward their champs. How idiotic is that? Like the WPIAL championship is the end all?????
Also, the 7-5/7-6/7-7 teams sit nearly 2 weeks before playing a PIAA 1st round game. How hard would it be to play consys to determine these spots? Heck, if sites are the issue, just play the consys at the site of the higher seeded team. FTW is an absolutely disgraceful, embarassing system and makes the WPIAL a laughingstock.
Fact: The WPIAL runs the worst post season basketball tournament in the world.
Take a look at the way District 1 and 3 do things for their tournaments. I follow AAAA, and here's what these Districts (1 and 3) do in AAAA:
Playoff Fields: District 1 has a 32 team field and District 3 has a 20 team field. That is roughly half the teams in their district.
Seedings/Rankings: Both districts use a pseudo power rating system, based on a simpler mathematical formula like a crude RPI taking into account strength of schedule, records of opponents, records vs. teams in their classification. The top 20 ranked teams in D3 and 32 in D1 gain the playoff spots. The rankings are updated weekly on Sundays so teams know at least roughly where they stand. Sure, somebody always thinks they get gyped, but I think it's better than strictly seeding teams based upon finish in a section/league when the sections/league are unbalanced in terms of good teams to begin with and folks sitting around a room. It encourages teams to get out and play tough schedules too. I have seen teams rated maybe 37th in District 1 AAAA with a record of say 13-9, while the 32nd and last team in is 11-11 or maybe even 10-12, but they played a much more difficult schedule with more difficult opponents.
PIAA bids: Both district 1 and 3 used consy playback games to determine all PIAA bids. District 1 receives TEN (1) bids to the 32 team PIAA AAAA tourney. District 1 plays consy playbacks. Of course, teh championship game determines who 1-1 and 1-2 are. The semifinal losers meet to determine PIAA seeds 3 and 4. The 4 quarterfinal losers play back to determine 3rd through 8th place by running a mini-4 team consy tourney, while the 8 second round losers are paired in a mini 8 team tourney and play two rounds when the 9/10 playback finalists meet to determine the 1-9 and 1-10 seeds for PIAAs. District 3 does the same thing to determine their 7 PIAA bids.
Sites: District 1 uses the home courts of the higher seeds as game sites until the semis, which are held at Temple or the Palestra, with the finals at VillanovaU. I like this idea because it rewards higher seeded teams for outstanding play in the regular season by getting them home court for 3 rounds if they keep winning. The only thing I'd change is that I would add neutral sites one round sooner (quarterfinals/elite 8) because neutral courts better show who the best team really is all things being equal, and if PIAA bids are already settled, then put the games on a neutral court. District 3 AAAA allows higher seeds to get a home game for the first round, then goes to neutral courts in the quarters for their bracket. All playbacks are at neutral sites. I like this idea too.
District 6 runs an open tourney, which is better than what the WPIAL does. I guess most districts only allow their teams to go if they are at/near .500.
Just my thoughts.
I strongly disagree. I also disagree with only having the top 4 teams in each section (plus all ties if the teams split with tied teams) as the criteria for making WPIAL playoffs.
For example WPIAL AAAA section 3 this year was BRUTAL, as well as last year. In this year's brackets released just an hour ago, the WPIAL awarded the top 3 teams in section 3 the 1 (New Castle), 2 (North Allegheny), and 3 (Hampton) seeds!
Last year, FIVE teams from that section made the elite 8 quarterfinals (Shaler, North Al, Butler, Seneca Valley, and Pitts CC)...and Butler, who made the semis, got into the playoffs on the final day of the season on a buzzer beater, just to tie for 4th place!
Honestly, any of the 8 teams in section 3 AAAA this season, including Pine Richland, North Hills, Butler, and Shaler would have finished at least 4th and made the playoffs in ANY OTHER AAAA SECTION. Thus, under the current system the best teams in WPIAL AAAA DO NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. The 5th place team in WPIAL AAAA section 3 (Pine-Richland) may very well have won Section 1.
In terms of seeding the WPIAL basketball playoffs, a bunch of folks who know little about basketball (and just a few who do know something) sit around in a room and play the whose-toe-is-bigger game to try and get their area teams the best seeding they can. It is a JOKE. The WPIAL also used the absolutely idiotic Follow-The-Winner system to determine PIAA bids instead of playing consys. Basically, if the WPIAL gets 7 PIAA bids such as in AA, here's how it works...
7-1 is the champ
7-2 is the runner-up
7-3 is the team who lost to 7-1 in the semis
7-4 is the team who lost to 7-2 in the semis
7-5 is the team who lost to 7-1 in the quarters
7-6 is the team who lost to 7-2 in the quarters
7-7 is the team who lost to 7-3 in the quarters
7-8 would be the team who lost to 7-4 in the quarters
This is a joke and wrong on so many levels. This system is the lazy man's system for determining PIAA bids. It flies in the face of competition and prohibits teams from EARNING the PIAA bids. I have seen many solid teams upset in the quarters miss out on a PIAA bid. I have seen teams that do not deserve PIAA biods make teh tourney. The WPIAL's rationale is to "give the easiest path of the WPIAL champ and runner up through the western bracket." Thus, the WPIAL actually WANTS weaker teams in the PIAA bracket to reward their champs. How idiotic is that? Like the WPIAL championship is the end all?????
Also, the 7-5/7-6/7-7 teams sit nearly 2 weeks before playing a PIAA 1st round game. How hard would it be to play consys to determine these spots? Heck, if sites are the issue, just play the consys at the site of the higher seeded team. FTW is an absolutely disgraceful, embarassing system and makes the WPIAL a laughingstock.
Fact: The WPIAL runs the worst post season basketball tournament in the world.
Take a look at the way District 1 and 3 do things for their tournaments. I follow AAAA, and here's what these Districts (1 and 3) do in AAAA:
Playoff Fields: District 1 has a 32 team field and District 3 has a 20 team field. That is roughly half the teams in their district.
Seedings/Rankings: Both districts use a pseudo power rating system, based on a simpler mathematical formula like a crude RPI taking into account strength of schedule, records of opponents, records vs. teams in their classification. The top 20 ranked teams in D3 and 32 in D1 gain the playoff spots. The rankings are updated weekly on Sundays so teams know at least roughly where they stand. Sure, somebody always thinks they get gyped, but I think it's better than strictly seeding teams based upon finish in a section/league when the sections/league are unbalanced in terms of good teams to begin with and folks sitting around a room. It encourages teams to get out and play tough schedules too. I have seen teams rated maybe 37th in District 1 AAAA with a record of say 13-9, while the 32nd and last team in is 11-11 or maybe even 10-12, but they played a much more difficult schedule with more difficult opponents.
PIAA bids: Both district 1 and 3 used consy playback games to determine all PIAA bids. District 1 receives TEN (1) bids to the 32 team PIAA AAAA tourney. District 1 plays consy playbacks. Of course, teh championship game determines who 1-1 and 1-2 are. The semifinal losers meet to determine PIAA seeds 3 and 4. The 4 quarterfinal losers play back to determine 3rd through 8th place by running a mini-4 team consy tourney, while the 8 second round losers are paired in a mini 8 team tourney and play two rounds when the 9/10 playback finalists meet to determine the 1-9 and 1-10 seeds for PIAAs. District 3 does the same thing to determine their 7 PIAA bids.
Sites: District 1 uses the home courts of the higher seeds as game sites until the semis, which are held at Temple or the Palestra, with the finals at VillanovaU. I like this idea because it rewards higher seeded teams for outstanding play in the regular season by getting them home court for 3 rounds if they keep winning. The only thing I'd change is that I would add neutral sites one round sooner (quarterfinals/elite 8) because neutral courts better show who the best team really is all things being equal, and if PIAA bids are already settled, then put the games on a neutral court. District 3 AAAA allows higher seeds to get a home game for the first round, then goes to neutral courts in the quarters for their bracket. All playbacks are at neutral sites. I like this idea too.
District 6 runs an open tourney, which is better than what the WPIAL does. I guess most districts only allow their teams to go if they are at/near .500.
Just my thoughts.
"Those who say it can't be done are being interrupted by those who are doing it."
Author unknown
Author unknown
-
zonebreaker
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 507
- Joined: November 26th, 2003, 3:25 pm
Re: D6 Seedings
definitely agree about the follow-the-winner system. hate it.
Re: D6 Seedings
Titan...
what was shalers record against AAAA teams this year?
what was shalers record against AAAA teams this year?
Re: D6 Seedings
If they did this for wrestling they could have the tournament done in about 3 hours Haha.WPIAL~Titan wrote: 7-1 is the champ
7-2 is the runner-up
7-3 is the team who lost to 7-1 in the semis
7-4 is the team who lost to 7-2 in the semis
7-5 is the team who lost to 7-1 in the quarters
7-6 is the team who lost to 7-2 in the quarters
7-7 is the team who lost to 7-3 in the quarters
7-8 would be the team who lost to 7-4 in the quarters
-
WPIAL~Titan
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 3837
- Joined: September 5th, 2003, 6:15 pm
- Location: Titan Town, PA
Re: D6 Seedings
Shaler's record vs. AAAA opponents was 5-13.
"Those who say it can't be done are being interrupted by those who are doing it."
Author unknown
Author unknown
Re: D6 Seedings
The only team that should advance to the PIAA tournament is the district champ. Having 7-5 play 7-3 for the chance to play for the state championship is the real joke.