Crosby vs. Gretzky (numbers)

[Aoki12]

I want to get the debate rolling on who is better, Gretzky or Crosby. Now if goalies and defenses were as they were back in 99s day now, I can guarantee Crosby would have close to if not more than his numbers. But skillwise I don't know, I don't think anybody in any sport will ever have the intelligence Gretzky had, but dang Crosby has by far better hands than anybody I have ever seen. I would love for you guys to post who you think is better and why. Ultimately this is for second place cause we all know mario would do both of them in!!!

[KirkHerbstreit]

Crosby is a great player, but he is not in the same conversation with Gretzky or Lemieux. I am not sure if you ever saw Lemieux play, in his prime, but his hands were unmatched in my opinion.

[abpk2903]

I wouldn't write off Crosby yet. Numbers wise, he will never sniff Gretzky but when comparing his numbers against his competition at the time, they are quite comparable. If, (and this is a huge if) Crosby can go the next 5-6 seasons staying healthy (75+ games a year) he would win 3+ Hart trophies, a rocket Richard or two, and many other awards. The 3 month stretch of hockey Sid was playing before his concussions was the best stretch of hockey I have ever seen. I don't think Crosby lines up with either of these great ones yet but I think he could have a career trajectory that could land him close.

[Aoki12]

Now hold on Kirk, I would say he's in the convo. Considering how the game is played today (fast paced, low scoring games) crisbys numbers were never expected to make 99's, but I think if you look at it from another perspective, Crosby has the skill pound for pound, or in this case player for player. Nightin and night out Crosby dances through better defenses and goalies than Gretzky had to face, and he still comes out with 3 ppg. I agree with you, and I know I am being niave and going back on my opinion, but Lemieux has the best hands, with Crosby at second, and this will sound crazy but Patrick Kane at third. Now, with the last post from apbk: I couldn't agree more, Thea next 7 years are going to be detrimental to Crosby rep as the GOAT, if he can take advantage of his situation and , like you said, stay healthy, lets just see if he can turn some heads. But as for now heres my top 10 in order
Lemieux
Gretzky
Crosby
Howe
Orr
Roy
Maurice Richard
Mike bossy
Sakic
Messier

I already know some of you guys are going to heckle me for sakic, but here's my reasoning, he played in an era dominated by Gretzky and Lemieux, he came in the top five in literally every one of those years for points, save for the years he wasn't full health, he won a cup with the avs, a con smythe trophy, and he is one of the most solid international performers of all time for what team? Canada!

But aside from that I think Crosby has something to prove. And he is close to his prime so he better do it fast.

[Manfred]

There undoubtedly are a few more names to be included to this list, and like mentioned, the game is different these days, but where would you place guys like Phil Esposito and Stan Mikita? There probably others whose name escapes me just now.

[abpk2903]

Any top ten list that doesn't mention Jagr is a sin. 2 time cup winner, 5 time scoring champ (Art Ross), 3 time Pearson (MVP voted by players), Hart winner and 4 time runner up (media tends to show favoritism to North American players), 8th on all time scoring list, most GWG of all time, and still leading his team in scoring at 41. This is all while spending over 3 seasons playing outside the NHL and he has seen 3 lockouts in his career (could be equivalent to 100+ points)...

Best European player of all-time.

[theoneandonly]

I'm not going to get into this debate of 99 vs 87... two totally different players in totally different eras. Apples and Oranges.

I will agree with abpk about Jagr.... just an unreal talent and has the numbers to be in any top 10 list. Western PA/Pens fans will always have some dislike for Jagr but you can't deny his greatness for the past 20 years.

[Aoki12]

It's crazy, because I had him in messiers spot, but then I remembered who was passing him the puck for a good portion of his career. Jagr is a good talent, he's actually to this day my brothers favorite player, but I just think he's always had the good fortune of being surrounded by good players, even on the international stage. Is he better than sakic? When things were going good for him and he was on a good team yes, but on a consistent basis no. Just what I think

[Aoki12]

There undoubtedly are a few more names to be included to this list, and like mentioned, the game is different these days, but where would you place guys like Phil Esposito and Stan Mikita? There probably others whose name escapes me just now.

Esposito and Mikita both dont make the cut for top ten, sorry they would get smoked in today's game, but I do put them high

[konjo78]

I would put Crosby behind both young leaders in Chicago right now on my all time list... Pls don't bring up great names yet like lemuix or gretsky