Fighting in Hockey
Fighting in Hockey
ESPN has been all over this over the past week but like everything they cover I feel like there is an agenda behind it. Fighting is way down in hockey. Over a 20% decline in fights from this part of the season last year. If you go back a decade, the decline has been incredible. I know we like to discuss hockey here and I was wondering what the opinions of our board is?
Here is my little tidbit...
The NHL clearly wants rid of the fighting but knows the backlash that they would take if they just outlawed it. Over the past decade small rule change after small rule change has really worked in solving their problem. New players must wear face shields, players must leave their helmets on during fights, you can't come off the bench on to your shift and immediately engage in a fight, fights in the last 5 minutes result in a suspension for both player and coach, instigators are more common, refs jump in to break up fights faster, and on and on. I like most of these rules especially the one about fighting late in games and coming directly on the ice to fight. Nothing irritates me more than a staged fight or a team that is 4 goals ahead in the 3rd period having to leave their stars on the bench for fear they will get drawn into a fight.
I see the value of fighting but I don't see the value of forfeiting a roster spot to have a goon. I like fights when they happen out of retaliation or player protection rather than a staged goonfest where two meat heads that can skate about as well as me break each other's hands and nose followed by getting up and saying "good fight." At the same time, if Malkin gets blindsided and run over, it's nice have someone there to remind that player why he shouldn't play so wreckless.
I like the direction that hockey fights are going. You see less goons in the game and more players that are there due to the skills they possess and have developed. A good fight can quickly change the complex of a game or a series (see pens vs flyers 2008), so I think they have their place but I don't need to see 4 fights tonight to enjoy the game.
Here is my little tidbit...
The NHL clearly wants rid of the fighting but knows the backlash that they would take if they just outlawed it. Over the past decade small rule change after small rule change has really worked in solving their problem. New players must wear face shields, players must leave their helmets on during fights, you can't come off the bench on to your shift and immediately engage in a fight, fights in the last 5 minutes result in a suspension for both player and coach, instigators are more common, refs jump in to break up fights faster, and on and on. I like most of these rules especially the one about fighting late in games and coming directly on the ice to fight. Nothing irritates me more than a staged fight or a team that is 4 goals ahead in the 3rd period having to leave their stars on the bench for fear they will get drawn into a fight.
I see the value of fighting but I don't see the value of forfeiting a roster spot to have a goon. I like fights when they happen out of retaliation or player protection rather than a staged goonfest where two meat heads that can skate about as well as me break each other's hands and nose followed by getting up and saying "good fight." At the same time, if Malkin gets blindsided and run over, it's nice have someone there to remind that player why he shouldn't play so wreckless.
I like the direction that hockey fights are going. You see less goons in the game and more players that are there due to the skills they possess and have developed. A good fight can quickly change the complex of a game or a series (see pens vs flyers 2008), so I think they have their place but I don't need to see 4 fights tonight to enjoy the game.
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theoneandonly
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Re: Fighting in Hockey
I can't really add much to that... pretty excellent post and I agree with almost everything you've said.
My only opinion comes on the "staged" fight topic... If someone from the Flyers/Rangers/Caps or etc takes a run at 87,71,58, 72 or etc in the third period of a game and the Pens have a 1 goal lead the smart play there, in my opinion, is to wait until the next game against whoever and deal with it then. I don't think that's exactly the definition of the "staged fight" but it's close.
I agree with not having a roster spot occupied by a goon... I liked the addition of Steve Downie before but I love it now. With the makeup of the Pens you have to have someone like him to stick up for the "stars". I can't remember off the top of my head but the game this year where Letang was jawing with someone at the end of the period and Downie came right in between them instantly... and then in the third period the other team was so concerned with Downie they ended up taking an instigator penalty. A guy like that has the ability to completely get inside the opposing teams head.
My only opinion comes on the "staged" fight topic... If someone from the Flyers/Rangers/Caps or etc takes a run at 87,71,58, 72 or etc in the third period of a game and the Pens have a 1 goal lead the smart play there, in my opinion, is to wait until the next game against whoever and deal with it then. I don't think that's exactly the definition of the "staged fight" but it's close.
I agree with not having a roster spot occupied by a goon... I liked the addition of Steve Downie before but I love it now. With the makeup of the Pens you have to have someone like him to stick up for the "stars". I can't remember off the top of my head but the game this year where Letang was jawing with someone at the end of the period and Downie came right in between them instantly... and then in the third period the other team was so concerned with Downie they ended up taking an instigator penalty. A guy like that has the ability to completely get inside the opposing teams head.
Re: Fighting in Hockey
Downie has NHL level skill. He had 20+ assists last year. I feel like the league is moving more in the direction of players like him than Colton Orr, Jarko Ruutu, and others that strictly a goon.
Re: Fighting in Hockey
Great post abpk, I agree. I have always been a fan of fighting; the argument that it is savage is absurd, if fighting in hockey is savage then where is the uproar to get rid of UFC? No everybody is just a walking example of irony with their TAPOUT shirts on.
Me and Genie were talking about something similar to this in the summer, and he brought up a good point: basically he said that usually the people who complain about it are the ones who it puts at a disadvantage. For example, does anybody remember Gretzky's thoughts on fighting? He was small and weak compared to other players and he was also really good, that adding up made him a great target for "goons". I think sometimes people watch a sensationalized viewpoint of something that has a prominent figure at its head and they automatically think that argument is credible.
Here are both sides to the argument:
Pros
-it allows teammates to stick up for each other
-it reduces stupid penalties (who's going to blatantly high stick sid when they see Downie sitting on the bench? an idiot)
-it's relatively safe
-it usually only involves 2 players so it allows them and only them to settle their differences, not involving the rest of the team
-it's tradition, it hasn't been a big deal for years, why now?
Cons
-young children who watch are obviously exposed to violence and at a certain age that is bad, BUT on about 95% of television there is violence so that's on the parents
-It is RELATIVELY safe, there's always that "what if"
-there are a lot of disproportionate fights i.e. your Andrew Shaw's vs. your Steve Downie's or Scotty Hartnell's
So with all that being said, I say keep it how it is. I mean approach it with some common sense, don't let it get out of hand but don't outlaw something that is not a problem in the first place
Me and Genie were talking about something similar to this in the summer, and he brought up a good point: basically he said that usually the people who complain about it are the ones who it puts at a disadvantage. For example, does anybody remember Gretzky's thoughts on fighting? He was small and weak compared to other players and he was also really good, that adding up made him a great target for "goons". I think sometimes people watch a sensationalized viewpoint of something that has a prominent figure at its head and they automatically think that argument is credible.
Here are both sides to the argument:
Pros
-it allows teammates to stick up for each other
-it reduces stupid penalties (who's going to blatantly high stick sid when they see Downie sitting on the bench? an idiot)
-it's relatively safe
-it usually only involves 2 players so it allows them and only them to settle their differences, not involving the rest of the team
-it's tradition, it hasn't been a big deal for years, why now?
Cons
-young children who watch are obviously exposed to violence and at a certain age that is bad, BUT on about 95% of television there is violence so that's on the parents
-It is RELATIVELY safe, there's always that "what if"
-there are a lot of disproportionate fights i.e. your Andrew Shaw's vs. your Steve Downie's or Scotty Hartnell's
So with all that being said, I say keep it how it is. I mean approach it with some common sense, don't let it get out of hand but don't outlaw something that is not a problem in the first place
Re: Fighting in Hockey
In related news, Connor McDavid broke his hand last night fighting in the second period of a 4-0 game. He plays for the Erie Otters, 17 years old, and will probably be the 1st overall pick in next years draft (although this may open the door for Jack Eichel).
McDavid is going to be out 5-6 weeks and is severely in jeopardy of missing his chance to represent Canada in the junior world championships next month.
This kid is insanely good. He is putting up better junior numbers than Sidney Crosby did (18 games - 16 Goals 45 Assists). The Sabres are IMO blatantly tanking to get the highest odds at this lottery pick (which is only 20% chance for 1st overall).
Apparently a "goon" from one of the worst teams in the OHL took a run at McDavid, put a hard check on, and followed it with a heavy slash. McDavid decided to drop the gloves and one of his swing missed hitting the glass behind the player.
McDavid is going to be out 5-6 weeks and is severely in jeopardy of missing his chance to represent Canada in the junior world championships next month.
This kid is insanely good. He is putting up better junior numbers than Sidney Crosby did (18 games - 16 Goals 45 Assists). The Sabres are IMO blatantly tanking to get the highest odds at this lottery pick (which is only 20% chance for 1st overall).
Apparently a "goon" from one of the worst teams in the OHL took a run at McDavid, put a hard check on, and followed it with a heavy slash. McDavid decided to drop the gloves and one of his swing missed hitting the glass behind the player.
Re: Fighting in Hockey
Keep it status quo. Guys like Malkin, after they've had enough, take care of business. I.E. the L.A.Kings' Justin Williams. Williams had been all over Malkin for most of the game, and after getting a shot in the mouth from ? the next shift out, Williams no sooner dropped his gloves than Malkin pancaked him. As a player, you eventually have to step up for yourself.
It ain't over until it's over.