Penn State at Illinois Game Thread

[Manfred]

And don't forget Chicago is the 3rd biggest market in the country. Great place for turning out community organizers.

[KirkHerbstreit]

They played gutless football today on both sides of the ball and it cost them the game.

Couldn't have said it better myself....They played to lose the entire game after going up 7-0. Turning point of the game was Zettel jumping offsides on the punt giving Illinois a 1st Down with about 1:50 to go before the half and them evening up the game on the ensuing drive. He was right next to the football on the snap, there is NO excuse for that, especially coming out of a time out. But I'm not here just to solely place the blame on him, the coaching staff was atrocious, hackenberg sucked, the FG holder sucked, the punter still sucks...I could go on and on.

And I KNOW i'm going to be a minority on saying this, but I really wouldn't mind if we turned down the bowl game. Yes I know..for the seniors blah blah blah....but it's not just about them. It's about getting embarrassed in a bottom feeder bowl against a mid major conference team like Houston again that I could live without.

Great idea PortagePride, lets have the program turn down millions of dollars from a bowl game that the program desperately needs, lets turn down the 15 extra practices that will benefit the kids next year, and lets turn down the bowl game for kids who stuck with this program through the hardest time, just because you are embarrassed about their play when they playing shorthanded, lack depth, and have had some nailbiter losses.

To be honest, I am completely embarrassed to be a Penn State fan after today. The fact fans cannot see the depth issues and talent issues the sanctions have levied on Penn State is mind boggling. Half the kids Penn State recruiting during these sanctions backed out of their commitments. These were plan B and Plan C kids that committed that are getting valuable playing time. The fact we have basicially had no oline all year. True Freshman are littered all over the field. Penn State should barely be competing in these games, yet they have taken Ohio State to OT and be in every other game down to the wire, except for Northwestern. The Penn State message boards were a pathetic mess of fans today that were clueless to the situation and will be the same fans that realize in 2016 the hand Penn State was dealt when they are back to where they should be.

Those who think Penn State should have gone for it on 4th and 1 today are the same fans who would be calling for Franklin's head, if they did not get it, and Illinois had 15 yards to get into Field goal range. You have one of these best defenses in the nation. You punt it and trust them. Was Franklin tempted, yes I think that is why he called the time out, but he made the right choice. For once, the D did not come through.

Also, for those who think James Franklin and his coaching staff can't coach, please explain his impact on Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt was a dumpster fire before he arrived. 3 wins are typical. Franklin went 6-6, 9-4, 9-4 at Vandy. People say he built that up with 4 cupcake OOC games and a weak SEC east, well why did they suck before his arrival and why does Vandy's new coach Derek Mason have them sitting at 3-8 right now with recruiting classes, by Franklin, that were ranked 50 spots higher on average than any Vandy class.

I guess everyone can jump off the bandwagon now, and probably to some extent next year, but by 2016 you will realize how wrong you were.

[DragonsDoExist]

Well said Herbie, well said!

[abpk2903]

So just because Franklin had success at Vanderbilt with kids he didn't recruit, we should never question his poor game management in these close games??? How many times this year did we run the QB sneak with hack and get the conversion? I can think of 4 times against OSU that has a much better front than Illinois. Why did we run the ball against UMD on 3rd and 8 and then punt the ball to them in FG range with one of the best kickers in the country? Why did we let the entire play clock run against Michigan then burn a TO with a few seconds on the play clock instead of taking the delay of game, when the plan was to take a safety anyways?

I think the fanbase has a reason to be upset when they continually see poor decision by coaches,a regression from the QB and TE position, and lack of offensive identity 11 games into the season.

[KirkHerbstreit]

So just because Franklin had success at Vanderbilt with kids he didn't recruit, we should never question his poor game management in these close games??? How many times this year did we run the QB sneak with hack and get the conversion? I can think of 4 times against OSU that has a much better front than Illinois. Why did we run the ball against UMD on 3rd and 8 and then punt the ball to them in FG range with one of the best kickers in the country? Why did we let the entire play clock run against Michigan then burn a TO with a few seconds on the play clock instead of taking the delay of game, when the plan was to take a safety anyways?

I think the fanbase has a reason to be upset when they continually see poor decision by coaches,a regression from the QB
and TE position, and lack of offensive identity 11 games into the season.

APK you can root however you wish,ou but don't be surprised if you look silly in a few years for thinking these guys don't know what they are doing. Some just understand the situation these coaches have been dealt. I will guarantee you some of the fans clamoring for Franklin to go for it would be the same ones calling for his head, if they did not get it. It would have been a ballsy move and may have won the game. That said, I have watched football for a long long time and can't remember many times a coach has gone for it at his own 41 yard line with a 2 point lead to salt away a game, especially when that coach has one of the top defenses in the nation going against an offense that is not that good.

I happen to think Franklin is a very good coach and a very good recruiter. I knew going into the season I was not going to judge him, because he is not playing teams with the same amount of players. If you happen to not think that makes a difference, so be it. That said, look at Nick Saban's (6-5) first year at Alabama. Look at USC's records when they were under sanctions. It makes a big difference even to the elite teams and Penn State has not been elite in 20+ years. You can't practice the same when you don't have depth. You can't put in a true Freshman qb, because you are looking at the big picture and redshirting him. I, for one, am happy Franklin is doing it this way, because he has long term goals in mind and not just a win over Illinois.

[PortagePride]

Great idea PortagePride, lets have the program turn down millions of dollars from a bowl game that the program desperately needs, lets turn down the 15 extra practices that will benefit the kids next year

Well I'm not 100% sure on this...Although our bowl ban was lifted,I do believe we still do NOT get our share of the bowl money from the Big 10 if my memory serves me right that I read when it lifted for this year. On the other hand I do agree the extra practices are definitely a bonus and a positive for this team and coaching staff and I'll just leave everything else at that.

[El-Moldo]

...Would like to say a few things about kirk's earlier post. Some times coaches are in the right place at the right time. We all know some teams are good for a few years, then fade away again. Franklin hit Vandy at the right time. Winning only 6 games his first year, he then won 9 in each of the next two years. As kirk mentioned, Vandy DID have a weak schedule in those years, which made him look good. It's just like the case with Brady Hoke at Michigan. He certainly looked good when Ball State went 12-1 in 2008 (after 3 losing seasons and a 7-6 before 2008). He looked desirable enough to San Diego State when he left Ball State for San Diego State and took them to 9-3 after that. But tell me, how is he doing since he arrived in Michigan? Sometimes you are just in the right place at the right time. Franklin is a rah-rah type of guy. And maybe that's what PSU needed at the time when he was hired. But he doesn't seem like real coaching heavyweight. And as far as Vandy is today, don't forget, Franklin left them hanging, especially when he took MOST of his assistants with him, and some players and recruits. As far as PSU is concerned, Franklin has used every excuse in the book for their performance. After the loss to Illinois, he cited his defense as being "worn out". Really? Anxious to hear his excuse after the next game. And as far as scheduling goes, imagine what would have happened to Franklin's team this year if they had played Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota?

[abpk2903]

Kirk, I'm not saying he isn't a good coach and won't be great for the program. But I'm also not going to give him a free pass on 3 horribly managed game this year, a regressing QB, and quite possibly the worst offense of all power 5 conference programs. Does his poor game management matter this year, not really. But in 3 years decision like those that he made in the Illinois, Maryland, and Michigan game could be the difference in playing the B1G championship game or the Heart of Texas Bowl.

I know we disagree but QB sneaks work 90% of the time. Punting into a 30 mph wind with some of the worst punters in the country, covering punt return, and holding an offense under 2 first downs seems like a much more challenging proposition.

[KirkHerbstreit]

...Would like to say a few things about kirk's earlier post. Some times coaches are in the right place at the right time. We all know some teams are good for a few years, then fade away again. Franklin hit Vandy at the right time. Winning only 6 games his first year, he then won 9 in each of the next two years. As kirk mentioned, Vandy DID have a weak schedule in those years, which made him look good. It's just like the case with Brady Hoke at Michigan. He certainly looked good when Ball State went 12-1 in 2008 (after 3 losing seasons and a 7-6 before 2008). He looked desirable enough to San Diego State when he left Ball State for San Diego State and took them to 9-3 after that. But tell me, how is he doing since he arrived in Michigan? Sometimes you are just in the right place at the right time. Franklin is a rah-rah type of guy. And maybe that's what PSU needed at the time when he was hired. But he doesn't seem like real coaching heavyweight. And as far as Vandy is today, don't forget, Franklin left them hanging, especially when he took MOST of his assistants with him, and some players and recruits. As far as PSU is concerned, Franklin has used every excuse in the book for their performance. After the loss to Illinois, he cited his defense as being "worn out". Really? Anxious to hear his excuse after the next game. And as far as scheduling goes, imagine what would have happened to Franklin's team this year if they had played Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota?

So Derek Mason can have the excuse of Franklin leaving and taking all of his assistants with him, but Franklin can't do the same with Bill O'Brien leaving and losing his entire offensive line except 1 player? Franklin came to Vandy at the right time? The recruiting classes prior to his arrival were ranked 91st, 71st, 61st, and 71st. That's the right time?

[KirkHerbstreit]

Kirk, I'm not saying he isn't a good coach and won't be great for the program. But I'm also not going to give him a free pass on 3 horribly managed game this year, a regressing QB, and quite possibly the worst offense of all power 5 conference programs. Does his poor game management matter this year, not really. But in 3 years decision like those that he made in the Illinois, Maryland, and Michigan game could be the difference in playing the B1G championship game or the Heart of Texas Bowl.

I know we disagree but QB sneaks work 90% of the time. Punting into a 30 mph wind with some of the worst punters in the country, covering punt return, and holding an offense under 2 first downs seems like a much more challenging proposition.

I'm not going to fault the coaching staff for everything Hackenberg does which is throwing bullets at receivers feet 7 yards away, throwing behind the receiver, etc. If you can't make basic throws, it's not coaching. Can some of what Hack is doing be attributed to the coaches, sure. But, at some point he has to be accountable when he is shorthopping WR's, and receivers streaking down the field, etc.

How often in your times of watching football have you seen a team go for it at their own 41 yards line with 2:30 left on 4th and 1 and the other team needing a field goal to win? I never have. The game was over if Hackenberg turns up field and doesn't head towards out of bounds on third down.

Could he have thrown on third down against Maryland? Sure, but nothing about that game said they would come close to completing it and you save Maryland a time out. I don't call these questionable calls. These are gut calls where you trust one part of your team over another. He trusts his defense over his offense to close out games. Can you blame him after what we have seen this year?

The funny thing is I think the questionable call of the game was the punt on 4th and 8 from inside their own territory early in the game. It's not questioned, though. You know why? Because it worked. The other call I questioned by Franklin this year was the fake punt against Michigan. I think that may have cost them a game.