Election 2004!!! Make YOUR vote count....

[runnerbyproxy]

Both of you need to quit being so patronizing to the people you disagree with -- or else run for office since you've got all the answers.

At least I admit I'm confused. That's the first step to real knowledge -- unless you guys decided to jump over it.

Foghorn

You have my vote. It's easy to sit in a public forum and decry how the world and America has gone to hell in a handbasket. Everyone is entitled to their OPINION but what are opinions without action? You certainly aren't going to change anybody's mind with raging against the opposition on here! If our country has indeed gone to hell then go run for office, be a part of the solution you know?

I don't believe I'm confused, but I certainly am not CERTAIN of everything you folk are so certain of. It is the first step to real knowledge, like Foggy said.

I can read Kerry's senate record. Not sure I understand it all the time. But where can I read GW's list of ACCOMPLISHMENTS??????? Can you post those here so I can see them, please? All sitting presidents run for office on their record of accomplishments, unless they have few. Don't tell me how dangerous Kerry is. Don't tell me what a liberal he is. Just tell me what GW has accomplished in his four years in office that make this country or this world a better place to live.

I'll listen.

[LionPride]

foghorn - how in the world was that a cheap shot? The truth must hurt. There's a huge difference between the killing of pure, innocent life vs. the killing of a convicted murderer that made a choice to take someone else's life. So because I said Kerry supports a law that kills innocent children, you turn that around to say Bush supports the killing of teenagers in battle? You've got to be kidding me. I hate to see our brave young men/women die in battle to protect us, but that is the profession they signed up for and all the risks associated with it. Those babies sure wouldn't make the choice to mutilated before they even had a chance at life.

Runner - I'll get to yours when I have more time.

[LionPride]

And you know, this whole deal of Southpaw and I being labeled bigots, and being labeled as stupid because we strongly support our candidate is getting a little old......

Just like grade school for some of you. You can't handle the truth so you resort to calling names. Grow up for goodness sake.

[LionPride]

Ok Runner - here's my reply (I know I've did this before on here on a thread a long time ago, but I'll give it a go again). In my response, I will do my best to only point out our President's strengths, not his opponents weaknesses, even though it will be hard for me to refrain.

Before going into the President's accomplishments, let's first take a look the things that occured during the past 4 years. It's no secret that President Bush inherited a declining economy. I told anyone that would listen even before he won the election that Clinton's recession would be blamed on the next President, regardless of who it was. Nine months after taking office, 9/11 changed all of our lives, and the administrations plans for what they wanted to do. In the summer of '01, corporate scandals began to come to light and then combined with 9/11, rocked our economy into a tailspin. These are facts that cannot be disputed, and must be taken into account when looking at President Bush's record.

During his 4 years, he pushed through one of the largest tax cuts of our time. Contrary to the spin, these tax cuts were for every single tax payer in this country. For those of us that paid taxes, we all received that $600 check in the mail, as well a reduction in the tax % taken out of our paycheck. These tax cuts were put in place to stimulate an economy, and it worked over time. It's really hard right now to refrain from saying that John Kerry hasn't seen a tax increase he didn't like, but I'll refrain.

After the corporate scandals, and 9/11 rocked our faith in the economy, jobs were lost, no doubt about that. However, in the past 18 months almost 2 million new jobs were created. The tax breaks to business's, large and small, played a large part in stimulating the economy and helping to create jobs.

President Bush has led the charge to wipe out the Taliban and liberate the oppressed people of Afghanistan, as well as eliminate a state sponser of terrorism. Free elections were just held for the first time in this country for 10 million registered voters. Afghanistan is no longer a threat as a nation to harbor terrorist, or launch terrorist strikes against us. Yes, there are still terrorist there, but they are not being given safe harbor by the Afghan government to build training camps and operate at will.

Al-Qaida's capabilities to launch another attack like 9/11 has been greatly reduced. They are on the run, and many of their leaders have either been killed or captured. Could it happen again? Yes it could, but the threat is diminished and our President won't back down from hunting them and wiping them out.

He held the United Nations to it's word, and when the UN failed to act as it said it would, he stood up for our country and invaded Iraq to eliminate a regime that previously invaded a neighboring country, that used WMD on his own people and killed hundreds of thousands of people, that killed anyone that opposed their dictator, that killed or maimed Olympic athletes for failing to bring home a gold medal, that harbored terrorists, that paid the families of suicide bombers in Palestine, and that held the knowledge and wherewithal to create WMD to be used against his enemies, including us. Whether you agree with Iraq or not, everything listed above about Iraq is a fact that cannot be disputed. An evil, evil man was wiped out because our President held firm in his convictions and eliminated this threat. Free elections will also be held in this country in a few months for the first time in decades.

Because of our President's resolve, nations such as Libya stopped their nuclear programs and turned over their weapons to us. Saudi Arabia began to more aggressively "clean up their house" (I stole that from a previous post). Yes, North Korea is still a threat, but our President is working with many other nations such as China, Japan and Russia to force them to end their ambitions. Previous administrations have failed in bi-lateral talks with this finicky nation, and our President has recruited other nations to join us in putting the pressure on. There's a candidate in this election that is promoting bi-lateral talks again, even though they've NEVER worked before with North Korea. That candidate is not President Bush.

President Bush has refused to give in to the pressures of our European "allies" on the Kyoto treaty. This treaty would have caused Americans to loose their jobs.

President Bush supports tort reform to help the costs of health care. This will help to eliminate the millions of dollars of damages a lawsuit can bring, causing malpractice insurance to sky rocket.

The President has implemented the "No Child Left Behind" act to force our schools to raise the bar in educating our kids.

Our President is committed to placing federal judges on the bench that will use common sense, and will do their jobs interpreting the laws, not trying to create them.

I know there's more, these a just a few that come to mind. As I think of more, I'll add them to this thread.

Runner, if you're willing listen with an OPEN mind, I'm willing to type.

[southpaw]

LP much more typing and Coach will have to get a new server!

I really like Bedrock's post paralleling our situation to that of the Roman Empire in the 4th and 5th Century. Moral depredation on the part of the Romans that caused the empire to emplode. Conversely the Eastern Roman Empire "Byzantines" while not perfect had a strong central gov't based on the eastern church "orthodox" that endured until the 15th century.

[southpaw]

Remember God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden not Adam and Steve!

[southpaw]

Remember LP all of those coporate scandals happened under Clinton and they were broke open under Bush. Clinton did a good job of covering up better than Nixon.

[D-nice]

why is there a lack of honesty in both candidates as far as liking each other goes they will have a heated exchange and then claim they really do like each other but they just disagree on politics. i will be honest i can't stand kerry i think he is bad person with no character whatsoever.like he would pretend to be my buddy and talk behind my back about my hoopty ride and crooked teeth.if he were in my family and we had a family gathering like a reunion or picnic or something, i would politely say hello and then not talk to him the rest of the day because i dont like to be around him because he is always so phoney. so therefore i just don't like john kerry aka senator ketchup.

[runnerbyproxy]

lionpride

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't dispute what you have laid out. My problem with President Bush is that there is not a list of items, especially on the domestic front, that he can check off as being accomplished with measurable results. The man supports stuff but outside of this war thing, we are short on measurable results for four years in office. The tax cut is a measurable result. I DID NOT get a $600 rebate so not everyone in the country got one, just so you know We are all measured in our work by time saved, money saved, benefits brought in terms of dollars and cents, sales, etc. Our current President just doesn't have a strong list of contributions with measurable results on the domestic front. That bothers me. It obviously bothers alot of other people too.

I do agree that tax cuts stimulate business and the economy. I think that is basic economics 101 too! It helps to have a civilized conversation. I don't think either candidate is exceptionally strong to be completely honest with you.

[quote="southpaw";p="64651"]
Remember God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden not Adam and Steve!
[/quote]

Southpaw, these are not accomplishments or facts on the part of President Bush. You might think you are amusing here, but I think you are displaying bad judgement in posting such drivel. I have a child who is gay. YES GAY. I am a Christian. We went to church. That child was raised right and participated in church services. I don't think that she is a deviant. If you are not for gay marriage, I can accept that. My child has been to counseling. My child is smart, talented and moral. My child felt hopeless and sucidal coming to terms with her sexuality. And to think that you have young people in classes that you teach who struggle with the same issues, yet you display such a cavalier attitude is truly shocking. More than one young person has been know to be suicidal over such struggles. I bet many people know of such instances too!

You should be ashamed of your behavior. I can't hardly believe a grown person would act in such a reckless manner.

[southpaw]

Take a chill pill proxy. Learn to relax a little bit. This forum is getting way too serious. Don't preach to me about morals and values. You don't know me and I don't know you if you can't take a little pun then don't read the posts. Don't question my professionalism or judgement and attack my committment to my profession. By the way what do you do?