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Unfortunately Jolly green we only read about the alleged ties in the newspaper days after the fact.If these guys are bending the rules it should not matter when it is brought to light.The important thing is that it is brought to light.I personally have officiated for more than 10 years and have never had a tie go beyond the second best jump or throw.So it would appear something is amiss in this situation.The only possible way I see this many ties occuring would be if everybody only got one legal jump/throw in during the competition.The people who suffer in this situation are the atheletes who got there following the rules and get beaten by one of these tied athletes.I'm hoping there is a logical explanation just like everyone else. I'm also sure that Head Roadie won't be the only one questioning this series of events, you can bet your bottom dollar that many people who know track and field will be asking about a possible rule infraction.I guess we'll all wait and find out.

Jolly Green....No I wasn't there, If I had been there, I would have known and not started this "strange occurrences" post. My whole point was that this was so unusual that I hoped I would get an explanation. I'm sure somebody out there was at the D6 track meet? Six throws/jumps and five scratches by each of the tied competitors is the only thing that explains that.

I think my assumption is what any person with Track & Field knowlege's assumption would be. It wouldn't have stuck out like a sore thumb so bad and been more passable if it had been two girls instead of three at 16'2 in the LJ and another occurrence in the shot (And don't tell me you weren't there!!!! c'mon...did they scratch 5 times or what?)

I should have been on the horn last week??? Sorry, I don't stick my nose in other Districts business. And how dare you perpetrate me as the bad guy if I bring it to light at the competition. I think the bad guy is the people that let this slide if indeed their was anything improper done. I"m just awfully curious to find out how that happened.

If there is something I don't know about (Perhaps the state allows tied competitors to remain tied if it is for a state qualifying berth???) then I want to have knowledge of it for our district meet, and I can assure you there is nothing in the District Meet directors manual regarding this.

My point is JG, you are awfully touchy about this....Do I sense personal involvement???

No personal involvement by me. I was not at the D6 AA meet, and in fact, I have never been at the D6 AA meet. I was at practice helping our kids get ready for the D5 District meet the next day.

However, I have been at more than 10 D6 AAA District meets, and I have never come across anything remotely questionable in the officiating or scoring at Mansion Park. So even though the circumstances are curious at best, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until someone presents EVIDENCE of wrongdoing.

I'm not touchy on the subject, I simply dislike the off-the-cuff assumption that if something unusual happens a track meet, someone is cheating. Your tone in the first post was not merely questioning, it was presumptive of guilt. If you re-read that post, I think you will understand how it left that impression with me. If you were really just curious about how it occurred, why this statement?

"Or are our good ole friends in 6 changing the rules to circumvent the system?"

A statement similar to those made in later posts regarding the long odds on something like this happening and asking for an explanation is a far cry from coming out of the box accusing people of cheating.

I'm with HR on this one.....there is something highly suspicious that warrants investigation or a misinterpration of the rules.

I do believe there is a rule that could lead to a misinterpretation. In a competition that has trials and finals, everyone gets 3 attempts and then they take the top 7 or 8 to the finals to get 3 more attempts. If there is a tie for a qualifying spot in the finals (say if the 8th and 9th places were tied after the trials), then the tie is not broken and both are allowed to advance.

If D6 viewed the competition as a qualifying round to states, then the tie would not be broken. Granted, that's taking quite a liberty with the rule, but it's the only way I can think of them justifying sending 3 athletes barring a miraculous 3 way tie.

gunner as far as the state qualifying standards there, i believe that anyone that clears the mark at another meet during the year should go to states cuz mike young and travis hoover had a bad day and someone like shendel from bedford other years was clearing like 12 ft or 12'6" and not doing anything at states but at least he got to go! lol

they need to change the rules as far as that goes!


duece2

that sux there username we actually agree on one thing the state standards!
however the sprints like you said i think you are saying hand times compared to fat times!
am i right?

ie 10.8 vs 11.1 or something! like that! in the 100m!


duece2

I think their district, which takes the top 8 relays, let them in, or so I heard. The 6th team opted out, and 9 and 10 weren't going, so they opted out as well. This moved the Penn Hills girls' relay from 11th to 8th, which means they are going.

As far as qualifying marks, I could see how one could feel that way, but another thing that people must do is perform under pressure. That's why they have the meet. In other words, we can't take all of the best distances, heights, and times from everybody in District 5 and hold a psuedo track meet where everybody is scored with their best performance. One must perform under pressure. For an example, the fourth seed 4x800 relay beat the top seeded team by 3 seconds with a 17 second PR (for Meyersdale). Jay Ifert was the fourth or fifth seed in the high jump, but he performed, and somebody else didn't. So I say, leave it the way it is. Part of the challenge is performing your best when it matters most. That is, after all, why they hold the meet.

well flea i have seen people do well at wcc's and county's but whenever districts came around they just had a bad day!
maybe not to everyone but some people react differently to the pressure i agree there!

but also if you hit the state times or watever once then i don't think you should go but if your consistent that should say something!


duece2

The whole thing about Penn Hills getting their girls in despite a dropped baton is that the WPIAL has qualifying meets for the teams so that at the BIG district meet, there isn't as much to go through. They don't take the top 8 from that district...just the top 8 qualifying teams for the district meet go and then I believe it is like the top 5 or something like that qualify for states. There were three teams that decided to step down because they knew they didn't have as good of a chance to win and go to states and that Penn Hills had an incredible opportunity to repeat. Now THAT is what I call being selfless.

Here are the facts of the "Strange Occurrence" situation.

PIAA guys caught the tie and called D6 on it. Both Mark Byers and Dr. Robert Lombardi (Assistant Exec. Directors) told me that D6 told them that ALL their jumps were exactly the same and offered to me information that the exact same claim was made in the shot put. I will leave the body language and facial expressions when they told me the facts up to your imagination.

A District 6 official who worked the meet told me the following. All field event officials were told that if there were ties for 3rd place, to leave them tied as they were treating the D6 meet as a preliminary to the state meet, thus utilizing the preliminary to final rule. That is obviously not the case as the District 6 meet is a championship meet and they crown a champion. That official (and others according to him) and many of the D6 media questioned what occurred and did not think it was right.

I will not editorialize my assumptions or feelings about this. Just reporting what I was told at the state meet by several very reliable sources.