Ligonier Valley Rams want out of Heritage

[jack daniel]

crimson

LV could definitely use better regular season competition, look at I think it was 2007 when they went undefeated we re the #1 seed in D6 A and got a bye. Then in their first playoff game got waxed by Bellwood.

[Ghost]

I like Ligonier, I attend about a game a year over there, and I'm sorry, but the statements are a little far fetched. First off for the A comments, they would have a good of shot as any to go for the gold? Yikes. I mean realistically 3-4 teams in District 6 could compete with the WPIAL's top dogs in A on a yearly basis, and when Ligonier and Laurel Valley were separate schools, they were as far from that as you could be. McCort, Bellwood and maybe an alternating group of the next two teams could play with any team. Minus Juggernaut Clairton. But anyone else, Bellwood and McCort are right there.



But if Ligonier had to play in the Interstate, I think they are looking at 3 legiitimate 40 point losses annually to GCC Jeannette and Mt. Pleasant. And if they play in the LHAC, they are looking at annual losses by the hands of Johnstown, Forest Hills McCort Richland and the Cambria's are tough games. Ligonier is a .500 team in the LHAC. Not trying to sugar coat anything, it is what it is. Maybe they would improve by playing in a league with better competition.

Completely agree with this statement Crimson. Even if LV were A, I don't see them doing much come playoff time. Not when you have teams like Sto-Rox, Monessen, and Springdale lurking around out in WPIAL land. Those aren't even the top dogs out there right now, but all three are established programs with tons of talent. For some reason I would equate LV to being more of an Avonworth. Good, but not good enough to get past the perennial powers.

Ligonier hung their hats on their win against Derry last year, and realistically they should have won that game because Derry wasn't a top quality team. Jack's right-- in 2007 when Bellwood played a murderer's row of teams they came in and spanked them. I wasn't surprised at all by that. Tyrone kicked the crap out of them in 08 or 09 too. Maybe playing a higher caliber of competition would do them some good, but I just don't see them challenging for a conference or even district championship in Districts 6 or 7. Especially now that B. Bailey has righted the Richland ship and appears to have a program on the rise. If they were in the "LHAC West", I see them winning 1 or 2 section games, if that. What it boils down to are different types of football. They are able to compete against the class A teams in the Heritage, but when it comes time to play against AA they are up poop creek. Look what happened last year against Central.

[richaboli]

I read that the WPIAL wants LV's decision in December. I heard that enrollment figures have to be submitted to the PIAA in early October, but not exactly sure of the time line after that. Will the school classifications be determined before December? I'd hate to see schools (mainly Ligonier Valley and West Shamokin) be forced to make district and conference decisions before they actually know what classification they will be.

[Big Ike]

Ghost/Crimson Ghost

Actually Guys I think my statements in some ways are the same as yours...3-4 teams in D-6 on a yearly basis, yes...but I would say with LV during thier more solid years have a chance. I am looking at it from a Springdale 2003 perspective and/or a 2009 Serra Catholic team (that should have lost to Northstar). Solid/building programs at the time that took advantage of matchups and "down" years for Juggernauts. I did say they could make it to the Semi's some years but it would be extremely difficult to win it all. To make a long story short they could make the playoffs most years like they already do but they may not always advance that far...But during some peak years they could win the gold like the forementioned programs. As the example Ghost gave LV could be like Avonworth most years, a team that is building a program and has made it to the Semi's twice I believe recently. They lost in the last moments I believe both years, no gold but a close shot at it...Again not every year but a program I believe would make the playoffs 2-3 years and get an early parting gift but capable maybe every 4th year of a serious run.



Completely agree...AA would be alot tougher in both the LHAC and WPIAL...I really think in this case your looking at about equal results...In the WPIAL Interstate they could actually win more games, but an early round exit, if they ever did make it to the playoffs, is much more plausible...In D-6 a 500 record could get you in the playoffs I suspect, but I say there is a MUCH greater chance of still making a district run and perhaps winning it...D6 is much smaller therefore your chances increase....I look at United circa 97-98? that upset either Tyrone or FH.

[HSfan]

I agree that Lig V would be an underdog to GJ, BM, Rich and FH in the LHAC. This year, a very good year so far, LV would be around the level of Bedf, WH and PC.

In the WPIAL AA Interstate Conference LV would be an underdog to GCC and Jeannette but not by 40 points. But, Mt Pleasant is no were near 40 points better than LV this year. Maxpreps.com has LV rated 14.4 and Mt P 2. These ranking may not be right on but they maybe somewhat close.

[Crimson's Ghost]

I'd keep it at around 40 points. GCC is tough, and the Cox kid for Jeannette has an offer to go play just about anywhere. They are good. Mt. Pleasant is expected to be a tough out this year.

[HSfan]

Maxpreps.com rates Jeannette 23.1 and GCC at 19.6 with Lig V 14.4. For Jeannette to be 40 points better than LV these rating would have to be off by 31 pts. Off by 35 pts. for GCC to be 40 better and off by 52 if Mt Pleasant, rated 2, is 40 better than LV. I'm not saying I agree with Maxpreps.com's
rating but I do not think they are off by 31,35 and 52 points. Ligonier Valley is a tough out this year.

[richaboli]

Is there anyone out there who has heard conversations about this by somebody in the loop, the LV athletic director, football coach, or principal?
Which way are they leaning, the WPIAL or LHAC?

[Ghost]

I guess what it comes down to is that I'm not buying the hype on the Rams yet. Win a playoff game and then talk to me. They haven't gotten over that hump yet in District 6, so I think it's a pretty big stretch to claim that they could win WPIAL gold. It's one thing to sit here and look at numbers and compare teams, but it's another to actually go out and play the game.

United's run in 1998 was 13 years ago. Hardly recent. Heritage conference teams haven't won a district title in football since. Purchase Line in 2007 losing to an 8-4 Bellwood team speaks volumes. That year they lost to Ligonier Valley 40-0. What happened to Ligonier in the playoffs? 26-6 to loss to Bellwood. I know since the consolidation they have gotten more kids out and become more competitive, but I just don't see it.

[richaboli]

Interstate prediction:
Ligonier Valley is the same rural/small town demographics as Southmoreland, Yough, and Waynesburg of the Interstate Conference. If they decide on the WPIAL, they will be placed in the AA Interstate and will finish with similar won-lost records.

A Time Back in History:
(most of you weren't born yet)
In 1969 the UNDEFEATED Ligonier Mounties, having their last year in the WPIAL, went to battle the South Huntingdon Eagles, now part of Yough and site of the Yough Middle School. A fired up South Huntingdon Eagle team defeated the undefeated Mounties 20-0.