6 class update, it's about to become reality
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billmurray
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Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
Generally, I've been in favor of 6 classifications. Very few states have the 'champions to participants' anywhere close to what PIAA has right now. Secondly, for as few champions as the PIAA crowns, a LOT of teams make the playoffs.
In Ohio, it's now about 30%. In PIAA, it's tougher to gauge because of the 12 districts having their own setup and criteria. However, if you look at District 10. They have 22 playoff participants for 43 schools, or just over 50%. Now, many states have very higher playoff participation, but they usually also have several more champions to thin the pool out.
The problem I have with six classifications is the adherence to Districts. When the OHSAA (Ohio) started the state playoffs in the 1970s, they were very exclusive. The entire state of almost 800 schools was divided into three classifications (A, AA, and AAA), and split geographically into four regions each. Each region had ONE team qualify for the playoffs (or, 12 out of over 800). Slowly, they've expanded it over the years. Two teams per region, then four, then eight. Splitting from 3 to 5 to 6 to 7 divisions.
But through all of that, the OHSAA did not use their regional districts to conduct football playoffs. They still use them in other sports, but realized using districts to handle the playoffs would be a nightmare. Different number of teams, sizes, mindsets on how to organize them, etc.
The PIAA problem is that the districts basically control the playoffs. Sure, there's the 'state playoffs' once a district champion is crowned, but the participants are hard-bracketed into eachother. And one of the two districts in the game 'host' the playoff game at a neutral site. Even if a better, more neutral site exists inside another district.
In District 10, the 6 classifications is going to reek havoc in the 4A, 5A, and 6A tiers. At the lower level, not so much. But, as teams this week complain about Region 3 teams playing up at Corry, Titusville, or Warren, the new setup will either require more 'long trips' for region foes, or we'll have to abandon the regions being strictly 1A or 2A (3A and the couple of 4As already play together) and split into 1A/2A and 2A/3A regions. Which will make playoff time that much more confusing and prone to error.
The PIAA needs to take the next step. And that's the elimination of districts for football playoffs. Split the state into 6 divisions, and split it east/west independently for each division. Then split it again into NW/SW and NE/SE by division. Use a playoff rating system to determine how many points a win is worth, and play true neutral site games set by the state, with the first round (or two) played at the higher seed.
The WPIAL will be deadset against this, I'm sure. But, this exclusive nature of the current setup will just exacerbate the problem. The WPIAL will be one of the few western Districts with a decent number of teams in a given season to really produce a decent champion for 6 levels. Meanwhile, D9, D10, D5, and D6 are going to wind up with some very sparse district champions in the upper levels that aren't going to fare well at all unless they have 'Cathedral' in their name.
In Ohio, it's now about 30%. In PIAA, it's tougher to gauge because of the 12 districts having their own setup and criteria. However, if you look at District 10. They have 22 playoff participants for 43 schools, or just over 50%. Now, many states have very higher playoff participation, but they usually also have several more champions to thin the pool out.
The problem I have with six classifications is the adherence to Districts. When the OHSAA (Ohio) started the state playoffs in the 1970s, they were very exclusive. The entire state of almost 800 schools was divided into three classifications (A, AA, and AAA), and split geographically into four regions each. Each region had ONE team qualify for the playoffs (or, 12 out of over 800). Slowly, they've expanded it over the years. Two teams per region, then four, then eight. Splitting from 3 to 5 to 6 to 7 divisions.
But through all of that, the OHSAA did not use their regional districts to conduct football playoffs. They still use them in other sports, but realized using districts to handle the playoffs would be a nightmare. Different number of teams, sizes, mindsets on how to organize them, etc.
The PIAA problem is that the districts basically control the playoffs. Sure, there's the 'state playoffs' once a district champion is crowned, but the participants are hard-bracketed into eachother. And one of the two districts in the game 'host' the playoff game at a neutral site. Even if a better, more neutral site exists inside another district.
In District 10, the 6 classifications is going to reek havoc in the 4A, 5A, and 6A tiers. At the lower level, not so much. But, as teams this week complain about Region 3 teams playing up at Corry, Titusville, or Warren, the new setup will either require more 'long trips' for region foes, or we'll have to abandon the regions being strictly 1A or 2A (3A and the couple of 4As already play together) and split into 1A/2A and 2A/3A regions. Which will make playoff time that much more confusing and prone to error.
The PIAA needs to take the next step. And that's the elimination of districts for football playoffs. Split the state into 6 divisions, and split it east/west independently for each division. Then split it again into NW/SW and NE/SE by division. Use a playoff rating system to determine how many points a win is worth, and play true neutral site games set by the state, with the first round (or two) played at the higher seed.
The WPIAL will be deadset against this, I'm sure. But, this exclusive nature of the current setup will just exacerbate the problem. The WPIAL will be one of the few western Districts with a decent number of teams in a given season to really produce a decent champion for 6 levels. Meanwhile, D9, D10, D5, and D6 are going to wind up with some very sparse district champions in the upper levels that aren't going to fare well at all unless they have 'Cathedral' in their name.
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
Does anyone want to post what this may look like for D6 with 6 even classifications???
Love to see how A, AA, AAA especially look.
Love to see how A, AA, AAA especially look.
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
I am guessing that this would hurt a team like FH who is a big AA.
Also when I saw the breakdown last year Clariton would have been in the smallest classification, interesting
Also when I saw the breakdown last year Clariton would have been in the smallest classification, interesting
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
OOL CLASSIFICATIONS FOR FOOTBALL
For the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 school years, there are 576 schools competing in Football.
The grid below displays a breakdown of schools competing in Football, grouped by district and classification. Click on the links within the grid to view a list of schools by classification or district.
A AA AAA AAAA
District 1 (74 Schools) 4 5 21 44
District 2 (36 Schools) 4 14 14 4
District 3 (93 Schools) 10 14 40 29
District 4 (33 Schools) 11 14 7 1
District 5 (13 Schools) 10 2 1 --
District 6 (46 Schools) 25 14 3 4
District 7 (121 Schools) 34 36 27 24
District 8 (6 Schools) -- 1 1 4
District 9 (25 Schools) 17 4 3 1
District 10 (41 Schools) 15 16 8 2
District 11 (46 Schools) 8 13 10 15
District 12 (42 Schools) 3 7 12 20
All Districts (576 Schools) 141 140 147 148
For the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 school years, there are 576 schools competing in Football.
The grid below displays a breakdown of schools competing in Football, grouped by district and classification. Click on the links within the grid to view a list of schools by classification or district.
A AA AAA AAAA
District 1 (74 Schools) 4 5 21 44
District 2 (36 Schools) 4 14 14 4
District 3 (93 Schools) 10 14 40 29
District 4 (33 Schools) 11 14 7 1
District 5 (13 Schools) 10 2 1 --
District 6 (46 Schools) 25 14 3 4
District 7 (121 Schools) 34 36 27 24
District 8 (6 Schools) -- 1 1 4
District 9 (25 Schools) 17 4 3 1
District 10 (41 Schools) 15 16 8 2
District 11 (46 Schools) 8 13 10 15
District 12 (42 Schools) 3 7 12 20
All Districts (576 Schools) 141 140 147 148
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
OOL CLASSIFICATIONS FOR FOOTBALL
District 6 Football
School Classification Male EnrollmentSort
St Joseph's Catholic Academy A 46
Williamsburg High School A 62
Ferndale Area High School A 76
Bishop Carroll Catholic High School A 82
Blacklick Valley High School A 82
Portage Area High School A 83
Juniata Valley High School A 95
Glendale High School A 98
Saltsburg High School A 98
Conemaugh Valley High School A 104
Moshannon Valley High School A 105
Claysburg Kimmel High School A 106
Homer Center High School A 107
Penns Manor Area High School A 111
Bishop Guilfoyle Catholic High School A 118
Purchase Line High School A 125
Blairsville High School A 126
United High School A 136
Northern Cambria High School A 139
Bishop McCort Catholic High School A 148
Bellwood Antis High School A 154
West Branch High School A 162
Cambria Heights High School A 169
Southern Huntingdon County Senior High School AA 169
Marion Center Area High School A 170
Westmont Hilltop High School A 173
Mount Union Area High School AA 183
Richland High School AA 202
Bald Eagle Area High School AA 206
Penn Cambria High School AA 206
Penns Valley Area High School AA 207
Ligonier Valley High School AA 218
Central Cambria High School AA 224
Tyrone Area High School AA 229
Juniata High School AA 230
Philipsburg Osceola Area High School AA 230
Central High School AA 232
Forest Hills High School AA 240
Huntingdon Area High School AA 258
Greater Johnstown High School AAA 324
Bellefonte Area High School AAA 341
Hollidaysburg Area High School AAA 402
Central Mountain High School AAAA 505
Mifflin County High School AAAA 617
State College Area High School AAAA 886
Altoona Area High School AAAA 933
District 6 Football
School Classification Male EnrollmentSort
St Joseph's Catholic Academy A 46
Williamsburg High School A 62
Ferndale Area High School A 76
Bishop Carroll Catholic High School A 82
Blacklick Valley High School A 82
Portage Area High School A 83
Juniata Valley High School A 95
Glendale High School A 98
Saltsburg High School A 98
Conemaugh Valley High School A 104
Moshannon Valley High School A 105
Claysburg Kimmel High School A 106
Homer Center High School A 107
Penns Manor Area High School A 111
Bishop Guilfoyle Catholic High School A 118
Purchase Line High School A 125
Blairsville High School A 126
United High School A 136
Northern Cambria High School A 139
Bishop McCort Catholic High School A 148
Bellwood Antis High School A 154
West Branch High School A 162
Cambria Heights High School A 169
Southern Huntingdon County Senior High School AA 169
Marion Center Area High School A 170
Westmont Hilltop High School A 173
Mount Union Area High School AA 183
Richland High School AA 202
Bald Eagle Area High School AA 206
Penn Cambria High School AA 206
Penns Valley Area High School AA 207
Ligonier Valley High School AA 218
Central Cambria High School AA 224
Tyrone Area High School AA 229
Juniata High School AA 230
Philipsburg Osceola Area High School AA 230
Central High School AA 232
Forest Hills High School AA 240
Huntingdon Area High School AA 258
Greater Johnstown High School AAA 324
Bellefonte Area High School AAA 341
Hollidaysburg Area High School AAA 402
Central Mountain High School AAAA 505
Mifflin County High School AAAA 617
State College Area High School AAAA 886
Altoona Area High School AAAA 933
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davesandstorm
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: September 4th, 2003, 12:40 am
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
Based on the numbers, here would be the classifications in Districts 5 & 6. Move in classification from the current system is denoted inside ().
District 6
A (19 schools)
Bishop Carroll
Bisohp Guilfoyle
Blacklick Valley
Blairsville
Claysburg-Kimmel
Conemaugh Valley
Ferndale
Glendale
Homer Center
Juniata Valley
Moshannon Valley
Northern Cambria
Penns Manor
Portage
Purchase Line
Saltsburg
St Joseph's
United
AA (9 schools)
Bellwood-Antis (A)
Bishop McCort (A)
Cambria Heights (A)
Marion Center (A)
Mount Union
Richland
Southern Huntingdon
West Branch (A)
Westmont-Hilltop (A)
AAA (11 schools)
Bald Eagle Area (AA)
Central (AA)
Central Cambria (AA)
Forest Hills (AA)
Huntingdon (AA)
Juniata (AA)
Ligonier Valley (AA)
Penn Cambria (AA)
Penns Valley (AA)
Philipsburg-Osceola (AA)
Tyrone (AA)
AAAA (2 schools)
Bellefonte (AAA)
Greater Johnstown (AAA)
AAAAA (2 schools)
Central Mountain (AAAA)
Hollidaysburg (AAA)
AAAAAA (3 schools)
Altoona (AAAA)
Mifflin County (AAAA)
State College (AAAA)
District 5
A (8 schools)
Berlin Brothersvalley
Conemaugh Township
Meyersdale
North Star
Rockwood
Shade
Tussey Mountain
Windber
AA (2 schools)
Everett (A)
Northern Bedford (A)
AAA (2 schools)
Bedford (AA)
Chesnut Ridge (AA)
AAAA (1 school)
Somerset (AAA)
District 6
A (19 schools)
Bishop Carroll
Bisohp Guilfoyle
Blacklick Valley
Blairsville
Claysburg-Kimmel
Conemaugh Valley
Ferndale
Glendale
Homer Center
Juniata Valley
Moshannon Valley
Northern Cambria
Penns Manor
Portage
Purchase Line
Saltsburg
St Joseph's
United
AA (9 schools)
Bellwood-Antis (A)
Bishop McCort (A)
Cambria Heights (A)
Marion Center (A)
Mount Union
Richland
Southern Huntingdon
West Branch (A)
Westmont-Hilltop (A)
AAA (11 schools)
Bald Eagle Area (AA)
Central (AA)
Central Cambria (AA)
Forest Hills (AA)
Huntingdon (AA)
Juniata (AA)
Ligonier Valley (AA)
Penn Cambria (AA)
Penns Valley (AA)
Philipsburg-Osceola (AA)
Tyrone (AA)
AAAA (2 schools)
Bellefonte (AAA)
Greater Johnstown (AAA)
AAAAA (2 schools)
Central Mountain (AAAA)
Hollidaysburg (AAA)
AAAAAA (3 schools)
Altoona (AAAA)
Mifflin County (AAAA)
State College (AAAA)
District 5
A (8 schools)
Berlin Brothersvalley
Conemaugh Township
Meyersdale
North Star
Rockwood
Shade
Tussey Mountain
Windber
AA (2 schools)
Everett (A)
Northern Bedford (A)
AAA (2 schools)
Bedford (AA)
Chesnut Ridge (AA)
AAAA (1 school)
Somerset (AAA)
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
OOL CLASSIFICATIONS FOR FOOTBALL
District 7 Football
School Classification Male EnrollmentSort
Avella Area High School A 66
Mapletown High School A 77
Cardinal Wuerl North Catholic HS A 78
Union Area High School A 92
Monessen High School A 94
Vincentian Academy A 97
Western Beaver High School A 98
Clairton High School A 101
Rochester Area High School A 108
Greensburg Central Catholic High School A 114
West Greene High School A 116
Jefferson Morgan High School A 119
Springdale High School A 120
California Area High School A 123
Leechburg Area High School A 123
Jeannette High School A 125
Riverview High School A 125
Serra Catholic High School A 125
Carmichaels Area High School A 126
Bishop Canevin High School A 135
Brentwood High School A 136
Aliquippa Senior High School AA 138
Our Lady of the Sacred Heart High School A 140
Bentworth High School A 144
Chartiers Houston High School A 147
Shenango High School A 148
Frazier High School A 149
Wilkinsburg High School A 151
Fort Cherry High School A 157
Neshannock High School A 161
South Side High School A 165
Bethlehem Center High School A 166
Northgate High School A 169
Riverside High School A 173
Avonworth High School A 174
Carlynton High School AA 177
Seton LaSalle Catholic High School AA 183
Freedom Area High School AA 184
Burgettstown Area High School AA 185
Sto-Rox High School AA 185
Laurel High School AA 188
Beaver Falls Area High School AA 193
Apollo Ridge High School AA 194
New Brighton Area High School AA 194
Washington High School AA 195
South Allegheny High School AA 198
Summit Academy AA 198
Charleroi Area High School AA 202
Shady Side Academy AA 203
East Allegheny High School AA 216
Quaker Valley High School AA 218
Mohawk Area High School AA 221
Waynesburg Central High School AA 228
Brownsville Area High School AA 231
Steel Valley High School AA 238
Burrell High School AA 239
West Shamokin High School AA 240
Keystone Oaks High School AA 255
Beaver Area High School AA 258
Southmoreland High School AA 258
South Park High School AA 263
Valley High School AA 269
Ellwood City High School AA 272
Freeport Area Senior High School AA 275
McGuffey High School AA 275
Derry Area High School AA 282
Mount Pleasant Area High School AA 282
Highlands High School AA 284
South Fayette High School AA 293
Deer Lakes High School AA 294
Yough High School AAA 301
Blackhawk High School AAA 304
Central Valley High School AAA 309
Elizabeth Forward High School AAA 309
Hopewell High School AAA 320
Indiana Area Senior High School AAA 330
Greensburg Salem High School AAA 345
Ambridge Area High School AAA 347
Uniontown Area High School AAA 349
West Mifflin Area High School AAA 352
Thomas Jefferson High School AAA 357
Belle Vernon Area High School AAA 370
Ringgold High School AAA 373
New Castle Area Junior/SENIOR High School AAA 377
Montour High School AAA 384
Laurel Highlands High School AAA 388
West Allegheny High School AAA 391
Mars Area High School AAA 394
Trinity High School AAA 394
Knoch High School AAA 399
Hampton High School AAA 409
Chartiers Valley High School AAA 439
Franklin Regional High School AAA 468
Albert Gallatin High School AAA 470
Gateway High School AAA 470
Moon Area High School AAA 486
Armstrong Senior High School AAA 490
McKeesport Area High School AAAA 526
Plum High School AAAA 537
Kiski Area High School AAAA 538
Greater Latrobe Senior High School AAAA 539
Baldwin High School AAAA 550
Penn-Trafford High School AAAA 552
Fox Chapel Area High School AAAA 556
Peters Township High School AAAA 561
Upper Saint Clair High School AAAA 561
North Hills High School AAAA 566
Woodland Hills High School AAAA 573
Pine Richland High School AAAA 589
Bethel Park High School AAAA 605
Shaler Area High School AAAA 607
Canon McMillan High School AAAA 622
Mount Lebanon High School AAAA 626
Connellsville Area High School AAAA 638
Penn Hills High School AAAA 654
Central Catholic High School AAAA 686
Norwin High School AAAA 690
Hempfield Area High School AAAA 695
Butler Area High School AAAA 926
North Allegheny High School AAAA 1076
Seneca Valley High School AAAA 1088
District 7 Football
School Classification Male EnrollmentSort
Avella Area High School A 66
Mapletown High School A 77
Cardinal Wuerl North Catholic HS A 78
Union Area High School A 92
Monessen High School A 94
Vincentian Academy A 97
Western Beaver High School A 98
Clairton High School A 101
Rochester Area High School A 108
Greensburg Central Catholic High School A 114
West Greene High School A 116
Jefferson Morgan High School A 119
Springdale High School A 120
California Area High School A 123
Leechburg Area High School A 123
Jeannette High School A 125
Riverview High School A 125
Serra Catholic High School A 125
Carmichaels Area High School A 126
Bishop Canevin High School A 135
Brentwood High School A 136
Aliquippa Senior High School AA 138
Our Lady of the Sacred Heart High School A 140
Bentworth High School A 144
Chartiers Houston High School A 147
Shenango High School A 148
Frazier High School A 149
Wilkinsburg High School A 151
Fort Cherry High School A 157
Neshannock High School A 161
South Side High School A 165
Bethlehem Center High School A 166
Northgate High School A 169
Riverside High School A 173
Avonworth High School A 174
Carlynton High School AA 177
Seton LaSalle Catholic High School AA 183
Freedom Area High School AA 184
Burgettstown Area High School AA 185
Sto-Rox High School AA 185
Laurel High School AA 188
Beaver Falls Area High School AA 193
Apollo Ridge High School AA 194
New Brighton Area High School AA 194
Washington High School AA 195
South Allegheny High School AA 198
Summit Academy AA 198
Charleroi Area High School AA 202
Shady Side Academy AA 203
East Allegheny High School AA 216
Quaker Valley High School AA 218
Mohawk Area High School AA 221
Waynesburg Central High School AA 228
Brownsville Area High School AA 231
Steel Valley High School AA 238
Burrell High School AA 239
West Shamokin High School AA 240
Keystone Oaks High School AA 255
Beaver Area High School AA 258
Southmoreland High School AA 258
South Park High School AA 263
Valley High School AA 269
Ellwood City High School AA 272
Freeport Area Senior High School AA 275
McGuffey High School AA 275
Derry Area High School AA 282
Mount Pleasant Area High School AA 282
Highlands High School AA 284
South Fayette High School AA 293
Deer Lakes High School AA 294
Yough High School AAA 301
Blackhawk High School AAA 304
Central Valley High School AAA 309
Elizabeth Forward High School AAA 309
Hopewell High School AAA 320
Indiana Area Senior High School AAA 330
Greensburg Salem High School AAA 345
Ambridge Area High School AAA 347
Uniontown Area High School AAA 349
West Mifflin Area High School AAA 352
Thomas Jefferson High School AAA 357
Belle Vernon Area High School AAA 370
Ringgold High School AAA 373
New Castle Area Junior/SENIOR High School AAA 377
Montour High School AAA 384
Laurel Highlands High School AAA 388
West Allegheny High School AAA 391
Mars Area High School AAA 394
Trinity High School AAA 394
Knoch High School AAA 399
Hampton High School AAA 409
Chartiers Valley High School AAA 439
Franklin Regional High School AAA 468
Albert Gallatin High School AAA 470
Gateway High School AAA 470
Moon Area High School AAA 486
Armstrong Senior High School AAA 490
McKeesport Area High School AAAA 526
Plum High School AAAA 537
Kiski Area High School AAAA 538
Greater Latrobe Senior High School AAAA 539
Baldwin High School AAAA 550
Penn-Trafford High School AAAA 552
Fox Chapel Area High School AAAA 556
Peters Township High School AAAA 561
Upper Saint Clair High School AAAA 561
North Hills High School AAAA 566
Woodland Hills High School AAAA 573
Pine Richland High School AAAA 589
Bethel Park High School AAAA 605
Shaler Area High School AAAA 607
Canon McMillan High School AAAA 622
Mount Lebanon High School AAAA 626
Connellsville Area High School AAAA 638
Penn Hills High School AAAA 654
Central Catholic High School AAAA 686
Norwin High School AAAA 690
Hempfield Area High School AAAA 695
Butler Area High School AAAA 926
North Allegheny High School AAAA 1076
Seneca Valley High School AAAA 1088
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
Wonder if schools in A would play up to AA to avoid the Catholics
Last edited by youngbuck on September 17th, 2015, 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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davesandstorm
- Official BleacherCoach
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: September 4th, 2003, 12:40 am
Re: 6 class update, it's about to become reality
Clairton would still be A. South Fayette would jump from AA to AAAA under this setup. So not only is there a point near the bottom of AA (now) that splits AA from AAA, but also a point near the top of AA (now) that splits AAA and AAAA.