Religious Questions
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passarelli
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- Location: Bedford
Religious Questions
[quote="Gunner18";p="117187"]
i think we scared passerelli, havent heard much from him for a while....
[/quote]
Not scared. I forgot about the forums again, until I looked at aim and couldn't figure out what the 'BC' group was for. Funny how these things remind you.
I almost posted in the Iran thread, until i luckily noticed the date. Since it died, I don't want to resurrect it.
Anyway, on to what this post is really about
Recently I have been struggling with a few ideas about Christianity in general. I personally am Catholic, but most of these question anyone that claims to be Christian can probably answer. I really, really am asking for help here. I think I will try to get my Deacon's email address also.
I think I will start off with the question that has bugged me the most recently.
Original Sin
Why are people being punished for Original Sin (henceforth OS) now? The idea that a loving God would dang most of his children because of the mistake of two people does not make sense to me.
I say God damned most of his children because traditionally the thought is that if a person is not 'saved' they are not going to Heaven. Because of OS, many people grew up without God, or with some other religion in his place, and as such, aren't going to Heaven.
The idea that because of OS, people who were not exposed to God at all or not even to the level that they would have been in Eden, seems innately unfair and unjust. These two said qualities should, under the New Testament, should not be used to describe any member of the Trinity.
i think we scared passerelli, havent heard much from him for a while....
[/quote]
Not scared. I forgot about the forums again, until I looked at aim and couldn't figure out what the 'BC' group was for. Funny how these things remind you.
I almost posted in the Iran thread, until i luckily noticed the date. Since it died, I don't want to resurrect it.
Anyway, on to what this post is really about
Recently I have been struggling with a few ideas about Christianity in general. I personally am Catholic, but most of these question anyone that claims to be Christian can probably answer. I really, really am asking for help here. I think I will try to get my Deacon's email address also.
I think I will start off with the question that has bugged me the most recently.
Original Sin
Why are people being punished for Original Sin (henceforth OS) now? The idea that a loving God would dang most of his children because of the mistake of two people does not make sense to me.
I say God damned most of his children because traditionally the thought is that if a person is not 'saved' they are not going to Heaven. Because of OS, many people grew up without God, or with some other religion in his place, and as such, aren't going to Heaven.
The idea that because of OS, people who were not exposed to God at all or not even to the level that they would have been in Eden, seems innately unfair and unjust. These two said qualities should, under the New Testament, should not be used to describe any member of the Trinity.
Last edited by passarelli on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm a pirate, are you?" -Maddox
"It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either." -Mark Twain
"In America--as elsewhere--free speech is confined to the dead" -Mark Twain
"It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either." -Mark Twain
"In America--as elsewhere--free speech is confined to the dead" -Mark Twain
Re: Religious Questions
I appreciate your inqiury. Maybe I can help you understand a little better. 1st of all, God is not punishing His children because of the sins of 2 people. Yes sin entered into the world through Adam, but the Bible says this, Romans 5:12, "Therefore just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to ALL men, because ALL sinned". Romans 3:23 says, "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". 1John 1:8-10 says, "If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us." Yes sin entered through Adam, but any chastisement from God comes from our own sin, not Adams. You are correct about having to be "saved"(believing in the one true God) in order to get to Heaven, the Bible is very clear on that. The Bible says, "that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ) shall be saved." Many people do grow up without God or with some other religion in God's place and if they never accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior before they die, yes they will be separated from Him forever in a place called Hell. As far as people not being exposed at all to God is a good question. In fact there are very different levels of exposure to God. In this country we have total access to all the scriptures through Gods Word the Bible. There are many people who don't have the access we do to Gods Word, however the Bible talks about this too. In Romans 1:20 it says, "For since the creation of the world His(God) invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, ever His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." Meaning even the remote cultures of the world can recognize that there is a creator, and it is God. However they become foolish and try to use their own understanding instead of just trusting that there is God. You see God knows their heart. But man looks on the outward appearance. A relationship or an aknowledgement of Christ is a heart condition that only God knows and cares about. Good works don't get you anywhere, you have to have a changed heart. There are 2 types of sinners my friend, saved and lost. I am a saved one. I hope I answered your questions. Any more questions I will try to help.
Last edited by CoachK on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
[font=Comic Sans MS][/font]"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."
Passarelli, as a Catholic also, I was under the assumption that a person who was not baptised, therfore still with OS, did not necessarily go to hell, but rather went to purgatory, in similar a style to anyone else who died with the blot of mortal sin on their soul. Purgatory, by all accounts and teachings, does not equate damnation.
For example, for the longest time the Church held that a child who died prior to baptism did not go to hell or heaven, but rather went to "Limbo". From my understanding this was a place (or state) similar to purgatory. See: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm
For example, for the longest time the Church held that a child who died prior to baptism did not go to hell or heaven, but rather went to "Limbo". From my understanding this was a place (or state) similar to purgatory. See: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm
Last edited by frostlion on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Religious Questions
yeah that's real nice and everything....but what does the BIBLE say? I'm not trying to be antagogistic really this is far too an important subject to razz guys to death on. I don't think the bible mentions purgatory in fact i'm sure. also JESUS never mentions a place to go kick it until a later date.
Last edited by D-nice on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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passarelli
- Freshman
- Posts: 27
- Joined: March 5th, 2005, 10:55 pm
- Location: Bedford
Re: Religious Questions
[quote="CoachK";p="120975"]...You are correct about having to be "saved"(believing in the one true God) in order to get to Heaven, the Bible is very clear on that. The Bible says, "that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ) shall be saved." Many people do grow up without God or with some other religion in God's place and if they never accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior before they die, yes they will be separated from Him forever in a place called Hell. As far as people not being exposed at all to God is a good question. In fact there are very different levels of exposure to God. In this country we have total access to all the scriptures through Gods Word the Bible. There are many people who don't have the access we do to Gods Word, however the Bible talks about this too. In Romans 1:20 it says, "For since the creation of the world His(God) invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, ever His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." Meaning even the remote cultures of the world can recognize that there is a creator, and it is God. However they become foolish and try to use their own understanding instead of just trusting that there is God. You see God knows their heart. But man looks on the outward appearance. A relationship or an aknowledgement of Christ is a heart condition that only God knows and cares about.[/quote]
How can people accept Jesus as their savior if they don't even know his name?
Also, I can't shake the feeling that OS is, by nature, unfair. Even if Sin only entered through Adam, we are still being held resonsible for it simply by the fact that we, ourselves didn't bite the apple yet are not in Eden in the begining. Sure, all of us have since sinned, but if Adam wouldn't have eaten the apple, most of us would be in Eden right now.
I think the only way I'm going to get past this is by giving it more time, though I think that might only cause me to drift farther away from the path.
As for Purgatory, it was explained to me as a place people go who have not yet made peace with God. i.e. People who didn't have a chance to confess before they died.
How can people accept Jesus as their savior if they don't even know his name?
Also, I can't shake the feeling that OS is, by nature, unfair. Even if Sin only entered through Adam, we are still being held resonsible for it simply by the fact that we, ourselves didn't bite the apple yet are not in Eden in the begining. Sure, all of us have since sinned, but if Adam wouldn't have eaten the apple, most of us would be in Eden right now.
I think the only way I'm going to get past this is by giving it more time, though I think that might only cause me to drift farther away from the path.
As for Purgatory, it was explained to me as a place people go who have not yet made peace with God. i.e. People who didn't have a chance to confess before they died.
Last edited by passarelli on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm a pirate, are you?" -Maddox
"It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either." -Mark Twain
"In America--as elsewhere--free speech is confined to the dead" -Mark Twain
"It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either." -Mark Twain
"In America--as elsewhere--free speech is confined to the dead" -Mark Twain
Re: Religious Questions
You think original sin is unfair? How about coveting another man's wife? That's unfair. It's not like you're doing anything with her, right?? And it's one of the Ten Commandments!!! How unfair is that?
Last edited by El-Moldo on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Religious Questions
One of the BIG differences between Catholics and Protestants is belief in purgatory and praying for the dead. I thought it was "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" for the true believer. And can you really pray for someone who as already passed on? This is why the Mormons are big on searching family trees. Find those long lost relatives and pray them up to Heaven.
Last edited by El-Moldo on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
[quote="El-Moldo";p="121008"]
You think original sin is unfair? How about coveting another man's wife? That's unfair. It's not like you're doing anything with her, right?? And it's one of the Ten Commandments!!! How unfair is that?
[/quote]
Amen. I covet Hugh Hefner's three girlfriends everytime I see them, and I am sure as hell not doing anything with them.
On another point, is this the correct formula: That all one person must do in order to win salvation is to accept Jesus Christ as your savior? After that, it's a "one way road to heaven"? I guess if I have accepted this, that even though I would bang out the Hefner broads at the drop of a hat, does not matter one iota, for I am bound for glory.
Personally I've never had much reason to buy into that argument.
We can all pick and choose lines from the Bible to back up what each other (Protestant vs. Catholic) thinks. For example, the necessity of good works can be justified in Titus 1:16, 3:8, and James 2:14-26.
You think original sin is unfair? How about coveting another man's wife? That's unfair. It's not like you're doing anything with her, right?? And it's one of the Ten Commandments!!! How unfair is that?
[/quote]
Amen. I covet Hugh Hefner's three girlfriends everytime I see them, and I am sure as hell not doing anything with them.
On another point, is this the correct formula: That all one person must do in order to win salvation is to accept Jesus Christ as your savior? After that, it's a "one way road to heaven"? I guess if I have accepted this, that even though I would bang out the Hefner broads at the drop of a hat, does not matter one iota, for I am bound for glory.
Personally I've never had much reason to buy into that argument.
We can all pick and choose lines from the Bible to back up what each other (Protestant vs. Catholic) thinks. For example, the necessity of good works can be justified in Titus 1:16, 3:8, and James 2:14-26.
Last edited by frostlion on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gunner18
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frosty, you quoted the Commandmant about wanting another mans WIFE then you talk about Heffy's GIRLFRIENDS. So its quite alright for you to park the beef bus in tuna town if you know what I mean
Last edited by Gunner18 on September 20th, 2011, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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