90's - 2015 penguins all star roster

[Jrs237]

"Okay Sidney Crosby led the league in points"

"Okay the Kings won the cup"

That's what you look like hahahaha.

[theoneandonly]

If we are limiting it to 1990-2015 then he is probably in top 15-20 range... so I'll retract my earlier statement. I just have a tough time giving anyone on that team any credit... they were a total joke of a team. I'll concede he was a little better than I originally gave him credit for. I don't use +/- typically but I just used it there to show how bad he and the team were that year.

The original goal of this was to make a team... if you're looking at top 6 he isn't going to get a single vote. Murphy, Coffey, Letang, Orpik, Gonch, Ulf, and Kasparaitis are miles ahead of him. After that you can get into guys like Hatcher, Hillier, Slegr, Olausson, and Zalapski that are probably on about the same level as Tarnstrom. Throw them in a bag and pick an order. This is kinda getting off the topic some but oh well, fun to look back.

"Okay Sidney Crosby led the league in points"

"Okay the Kings won the cup"

That's what you look like hahahaha.

I have no idea what you are talking about... Who talked about Crosby or the Kings? You're a weird dude.

[Jrs237]

Dude, that's what the discussion is called "90's-2015 penguins all star roster" don't know where the discrepancy is.

Zalapski only played two years with the pens in the sample space 1990-2015 and he wasn't in any way spectacular compared to other defenseman in the league. Hillier never even cracked 30 points. Slegr cracked 30 once in the 5 years he played with the pens. Olausson and hatcher, you make a dang good point. Although Olausson only played 2 years with the pens, I remember liking him and his point production was decent. Hatcher definitely deserves to be in the conversation. I was actually going to put him yesterday but instead thought Kaspiritus deserved it over him.

Brooks Orpik, don't know why pens fans are so infatuated with him. He just wasn't good on the offensive side of the puck. He was a great shot blocker, his physical game is for sure missed in Pittsburgh but he just could not score. No way he is in my top 6.

Otherwise I agree with your top 6.

[Jrs237]

I have no idea what you are talking about... Who talked about Crosby or the Kings? You're a weird dude.

I think you know exactly what I'm talking about and you should because it's pretty cut and dry. But I'll break it down for you:

You said "okay he led the team in points" like it was meaningless that I said that.

I made a comparison. So on the same token if I said Sidney crosby led the league in points last year so that's one of the reasons he's the best in the league, you would say "okay he led the league in points". It was a comparison, don't know how that gets you confused in any way or to elicit a response like calling me a weird dude.

[HockeyGenie]

This dude is a smartass.

Most of these guys won a cup, Tarnstrom didn't win anything

[theoneandonly]

We are talking about defenseman, right? I don't care if a defenseman scores 5 points or 50 points. Obviously a guy like Letang/Coffey is valuable because they play both ways at a high level. That doesn't mean a lockdown defender that hits and blocks shots is any less valuable.

Using points to determine a defenseman's worth is a double edged sword... It can show a players value but it doesn't always. If you base solely on points you're going to exclude a lot of good players.

There isn't a discrepancy, I can read. I just wasn't positive because my statement was.. "I'd say if there was a list of best Pens defensemen EVER to wear the jersey he (Tarnstrom) probably ranks somewhere outside the top 20."

Yeah I really have no idea what you're talking about man...

Leading the team in points does mean something... except when the team is awful and filled with marginal NHL talents. That's like saying just because you beat me in a race you're automatically fast. You're not. You're just faster than I am, because I'm old, slow and out of shape.

Sidney Crosby leading the league in points is a totally different comparison. Of course leading an entire league in points is a valid indicator of your value and/or ability.

[Jrs237]

Phil Bourque only scored above 40 points once in the NHL... and above 30 3 times. He doesn't make the list if there are 10 lines.

Looks like you were using points as a measure here....

But okay, I'll go with it. Who's the league leader in blocked shots right now? Kris Russell from Calgary, he has 20 total points in 60 games. He sees a good bit of mark giordano, you could argue his total should be a little higher but 20 in 60 is decent. League leader in hits is none other than Brooks Orpik! He has a meager 16 points, and zero goals (all while playing on the same roster as Ovi and Backstrom BTW). If you haven't lit up the scoreboard by this late in the season and your a top4 D I'm gonna question your value, no matter how many Block shots or hits you have.

That's okay, I will let you stay confused and unaware of what I'm talking about. I'm just so out there.

[theoneandonly]

Phil Bourque played wing in addition to defense so I guess it doesn't really apply to him, I guess. It's perfectly fine to use points as a measure... using it as the only measure is idiotic. That's the only thing you mentioned in your breakdown of players I listed. I don't have an issue at all with it being a metric, not sure where you got that.

If you think a player like Brooks, or more specifically Brooks himself, doesn't have value then I don't really know what else I can contribute to this conversation that will help you see the bigger picture.

Thanks for letting me stay confused... your kindness and generosity won't go unnoticed.

[Jrs237]

You just go deeper in deeper.

I never once said brooks Orpik "doesn't have any value" I said "I'm gonna question your value", meaning how important what he brings to the table is. Guess I should have been more clear? Seems pretty clear to me. "Doesn't" is an a lot stronger word than The phrase "I'm gonna question"

Fair enough, if you think a player like brooks, 16 points 0 goals 245 hits 157 blocks, has more value to his team than a player like Kris Letang, who has 10 goals and 49 points ALONG with 107 hits and 99 blocked shots, then I don't have anything more to say either.

[JustWrestle]

My friends and I always kid that Brooks Orpik was considered better than he was because of that Red Wings Stanley Cup game when he hit like 3 guys in 5 seconds