top players list for WesternPAFootball.net 2016

[billmurray]

it's all good west....i like a good conversation. As was mentioned, stats don't always tell a story, nor do intangibles like 40 speeds and such. A player doesn't have to be a 4.4 runner to be a great receiver. If they run good clean routes and have es capability it lends to the scouts ability to see a good player. Also, they may not be on a team that gives them opportunity to build their numbers. You can have a D1 receiver on a team with only 21 catches for 240 yards in a season if it's a running team or they have an inexperienced qb.

[west33]

I am with you bill, but he had a spread passing offense with updyke at qb which most say is the best pure pocket passer in the lhac. Most of his scores came vs mccort and westmont I believe. Two teams that couldn't cover or tackle very well last year. I look at how players perform against top competition in the state. Not the weaker ones. You need to go into hudyl and pick like mckolosky, barnes, or a heiple soph/jr film. Watch the plays they make on offense and defense. Clearly the top athletes in the lhac. All the names I gave you. Watch them, then the kids from j-town. It is only like 4-10min. clips of their runs, hits, and passes. And then watch gibsons senior film clips. Then compare.

[Crimson's Ghost]

Gibson was a step above everyone locally this season, he could do things nobody else could. You can see it on his film.

Stick him on BG and Somerset and he probably has better high school stats, he's still the same player.

[billmurray]

Gibson was a step above everyone locally this season, he could do things nobody else could. You can see it on his film.

Stick him on BG and Somerset and he probably has better high school stats, he's still the same player.

That's what I believe west33 is missing, players need support to put up big numbers. Gibson didn't have it whereas those players west mentions did. Once again, numbers don't show the bigger picture. Updyke being the best pure pocket guy in the league still doesn't show the limitations of what Gibson was dealing with. As you said, he really only put up big numbers against two weak teams. Updyke passed for 1200 yards with most of those yards coming against a very good Bedford team (350+) and a decent Forest Hills team (250+). In the games you mentioned Updyke struggled to reach 300 yards total. That just shows even looking at the competition isn't accurate.
Gibson was a steady and reliable receiver for 3 years averaging over 18 ypc.

[west33]

See you guys say stick him on this team or that team. J-town wasn't bad and passed and had plays to him. I liked the other wr better in the games I saw robinson I believe. Stick heiple or barnes and any team, or chadbourn/mckolosky, or blough donoghue,montgomery /cook/shaffer and they still put up better numbers than gibson on offense and defense. Those senior numbers he put up don't garner recognition to the ken lantzy all star game. Don't tell me j-town had no team or players. Updyke is a top qb and jones is a top rb. They tried to get gibson the ball and he couldn't break it like the guys I mentioned above. I still say he will have a rude awakening at d-1. Good players don't need a team to still shine and put up numbers. Most of the guys I mentioned played 2 quarters a game and gibson played 4. I guess we just will disagree. Stats don't lie. And make excuses about his team. They tried to get it to him running,kickoffs,punts,passes. I will take my kids mentioned over him any day. He isn't no simon or hawkins guys! Watch the somerset game and tell me gibson is d-1?? Go to hudyl and while you are at it and watch film of my guys. They had big play after big play and tons of defensive plays. What stopped him on defense from making tackles and ints?? That is what I heard he is going for. I still take my guys mentioned on either side of the ball no matter what team. They played hard every game and showed their numbers are the best in the area every night. Heard a lot of people say the same as me on him. He must run a 4.4 is all I can say because he isn't real big. You stand your guy, I stand mine. Yah yours is going d-1 which makes your argument look good, but I saw him and his film and the others and I stick with my guys I mentioned both off. and def. Like I said my opinion. We are all bleachercoaches here. I wasn't impressed. So I guess in your eyes I don't know talent, and in mine you guys overlooked a lot of talent that had WAY better seasons than him. Even his soph/ jr stats weren't that good to go d-1 and j-town teams were good.

[west33]

And who cares if he ave. 18 yds a catch. How many catches?? How many tds??? How many tackles/ints??? How many yards??? And if he was d-1, don't tell me they didn't want to get the ball to him! He got shut down by aa/aaa schools in his career. And you say that is d-1??? Maybe you and virginias coaches eyes. He should have had 60 rec for over 1000yds and 22 tds/ 80+ tackles and 8 ints with 4 returned for tds. Kickoffs/ punt returns returned for tds every game. That is d-1 to me. Maybe I am missing something here.

[Crimson's Ghost]

Those senior numbers he put up don't garner recognition to the ken lantzy all star game.

Kareem Gibson isn't playing Lantzy, he's playing Big 33. Kind of a bigger deal.

[billmurray]

Ok West, this went from a civil discussion to beyond one. I only have one more thing to say, maybe you should apply to be a college recruiter because obviously you saw more than every other recruiter out there....as for hudl, don't need to watch them...I saw all those guys play in person many times.
ok, two things....sticking, as you say, "heiple or barnes on any team, or chadbourn/mckolosky, or blough donoghue,montgomery /cook/shaffer and they still put up better numbers than gibson on offense and defense"...DOUBTFUL.... I'll bet their production goes WAY down. Did you happen to see the lines those guys had to help them? Come on...and no, Gibson is a receiver not a defender..recruited to catch the ball....the same position he's playing in the BIG33 game.

[billmurray]

And who cares if he ave. 18 yds a catch. How many catches?? How many tds??? How many tackles/ints??? How many yards??? And if he was d-1, don't tell me they didn't want to get the ball to him! He got shut down by aa/aaa schools in his career. And you say that is d-1??? Maybe you and virginias coaches eyes. He should have had 60 rec for over 1000yds and 22 tds/ 80+ tackles and 8 ints with 4 returned for tds. Kickoffs/ punt returns returned for tds every game. That is d-1 to me. Maybe I am missing something here.

YES, you ARE missing something here...BGs Andrew Berger...big man, third in the STATE in tackles..Tim Garlitz led the state in tackles, .Kephart and Bragalone led the state in rushing, Loner, French..the names go on...all had BIG stats...where is their D1 offer? I'm tellin ya there's more to recruiting than stats. why didn't he have 1000 yards a year? hmm....maybe because his qb only threw the ball 150 times.

[west33]

Ok guys We have opinions. I respect yours. D-1 and big 33 are great accomplishments. Maybe I went to bad games when I saw him. But you are right those two accolades to speak well for gibson. Sorry to get off your subject. Good discussion though. I know he has talent. Not doubting your opinions at all. Good luck to him in college and big 33. I am done too. lol. Back to the topic.